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Electric 20

Old 07-06-2008, 02:11 AM
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pd1
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Default Electric 20

Friday was lousy weather so I decided to just "clean up" some plans.
A photo of a Ken Willard design Roaring 20 was posted.
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I had a couple of these years ago. I shouldn't have started another project without cleaning up some old projects, but I did.

I redrew the plans and just cut out the ribs, oh, and stab.
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Cut the lower wing skin and draw the rib placements...and leading edge.
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You get the picture.
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'The wing weighs 1.2 ounces

I'll put the fuse together tomorrow.
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Total about four hours.

Paul
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Old 07-06-2008, 03:41 AM
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Default Willards Wee models

Hi Paul,
I remember the "Roaring 20", I believe he had a Cox .020 engine and used to fly it indoors. I may have a M.A.N. article somewhere.
Nice build, those sheeted wings go together fast! I always liked the design, reminds me of some of the Goodyear pylon racers like the Buster, Bonzo, Cassutt, Jeep.
Should be a fun model, good luck!
Ron
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:28 AM
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It's always fun to watch you build a plane Paul. Subscribed
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
It's always fun to watch you build a plane Paul. Subscribed
Same here. Cute subject.
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:31 AM
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You really do need to seek professional help Paul.
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
You really do need to seek professional help Paul.
You know, I think you're right.

Did I mention I built two trainers last week for a friend of mine and his son?
Well, fuselages and tails. I had a wing on the shelf.
I just have to build one more wing.
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:47 PM
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You're the only guy I know that can get up in the morning and say....."Gee, I think I'll scratch build a plane today"....and maiden it the next day.

It's always fun watching your builds. You're a good teacher Massa.

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Old 07-06-2008, 05:32 PM
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I'm not that fast.

I finished the fuselage.
Fuselage and stab weigh 1 ounce.
Now I have to mount equipment and get some hardwood dowels.
The dowels from the craft store are about as stiff as wet noodles.
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:41 PM
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What's the span on that? Looks like 24" or so??
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Twmaster View Post
What's the span on that? Looks like 24" or so??
It's small, it's only 20 inches.

Paul
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:35 PM
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Fuselage and wings with gear and wheels weigh 2.7 ounces.
Stab drying.Click image for larger version

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I cut some 1/8 dowels in half and glued them to the underside of the wing. These will help to keep the wing centered and in the event of a not so good landing the wing can still shift.

Everything shown 6 ounces.Click image for larger version

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Should be under 7 ounces ready to fly.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:46 AM
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That looks like an ELE EC28P-L motor sitting beside it. Is that correct? If so, that thing will scream.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
That looks like an ELE EC28P-L motor sitting beside it. Is that correct? If so, that thing will scream.
That's the smallest motor I have. I might see if I can come up with a smaller one.
I think you're right, that will make it scream.

This is the motor.
http://64.33.154.92/blackdogrc/brush...ies.jsp#EC28PS
I'll go with a two cell pack and a itsy bitsy prop.

Put the push rod tubes in, top sheeting, fin and rudder too.
Still have to mount the servos and cut an elevator.

Should be done soon.

Paul
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Old 07-07-2008, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
You really do need to seek professional help Paul.
It's always funny to see who is going to throw the first stone!!! Kind of ironic this time!! Don't know what I'm going to have to do to get him to finish the fuse on my P47. Maybe if I just put it all in a box and get it in front of him. Just seems like he could knock it out in about 3 hours.

Great looking build ...again Paul!!
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:28 PM
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Andy, You have to bring the plans and parts up here.
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Andy, You have to bring the plans and parts up here.
That was easy!! And now it's in writing!!
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:01 AM
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I added some colored tissue for trim.

With the push rod tubes , fin and rear deck the airframe came out to 3.2 ounces.
That's less than .4 ounce for tissue and dope.

If I get a chance I'll install the equipment in it tomorrow.

I need some small props and I might make a new landing gear.
I'm not happy with this one.

Paul
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:41 AM
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That's a neat looking plane Paul...I like it, nice job.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:54 AM
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Default WOW!

That's GREAT from just a photo, Paul! If you'd like a tip on great/cheap/LIGHT landing gear, here you go:
All you need do is buy one of those cheap kites at one of the many dollar stores across the country (mine is from Dollar General) They come with 2 fiberglass kite rods about 24" long. They are light, ingredibly flexable, and absorb tremendous hard landing load shocks (hey,.. I know!) All you need for actual wire, is a small bent piece for the axle that you bind to the rod by wrapping it with thread & soak with thin CA. You then install a soft balsa block inside the fuselage where the gear goes. Drill a hole @ the proper angle and install. The rods are approx. 3/32" in diameter. Then.. wick a drop of CA into the hole down the rod.. instant "springy gear!" If you look at the photo, you'll see I used a soft triangular block in mine (had to cut a hole in it for the wires) The Roarin'20 called for 3/4" wheels, that wern't available in rubber, so I turned some out of balsa with my hand drill, and coated them with rubberized tool grip compound.. VERY light wheels! If you can't find a dollar store in your area that carries kites (they ARE seasonal) you can get them dirt-cheap at this wholesale sight:
http://mcgillswarehouse.com/ItemsLis...N=DIAMONDKITES
http://mcgillswarehouse.com/ItemsLis...&GN=DELTAKITES
Toys-R-Us, and Wal mart usually carry them for about 2.75 for the 52" Deltas. they have about 5 3/32" fiberglass rods in them, and are a steal of a deal! You can use them as spar reinforcement, landing gear, foam reinforcement..etc., etc., etc. I give credit to other innovative thinkers that taught me that one! Bob
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Last edited by Demon-leather; 07-08-2008 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:21 AM
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Default PS:.......

Since you did such a great Job.. if you want me to plug you a Roarin'20 canopy,.. just let me know. I just got done plugging a set of wing tips for My Top Dawg. The origional kit came with molded clear ones, so I made plugs from them to make my own. I should have used .030 sheet, instead of .015 sheet because they are too flimsey to use without reinforcing them (which I did, because I'm using them anyway) Bad for wing tips,.. great for canopies! If you want one, let me know... all you have to pay for is shipping. The canopy plug is pictured on the ply female plug for the wing tips... Bob
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:26 PM
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Thanks for the tip on the kites.
Sent you a PM.
Paul
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Demon-leather View Post
Since you did such a great Job.. if you want me to plug you a Roarin'20 canopy,.. just let me know. I just got done plugging a set of wing tips for My Top Dawg. The origional kit came with molded clear ones, so I made plugs from them to make my own. I should have used .030 sheet, instead of .015 sheet because they are too flimsey to use without reinforcing them (which I did, because I'm using them anyway) Bad for wing tips,.. great for canopies! If you want one, let me know... all you have to pay for is shipping. The canopy plug is pictured on the ply female plug for the wing tips... Bob
Good Morning Guys,
Glad to see that I'm not the only one that's up and on the boards & building at this hour most everyday.
Bob,
I've been making a set of plug molds for the front & rear canopies for a A-26B kit that I got awhile back. I used Plaster of Paris poured into another canopy set that was loaned to me to make my own.
My questions are;
(1) Do I need to seal the PoP with...???
(2) Does the PoP need to be baked like other products such as coffee cups, plates etc, etc to make it harder? At the moment my brain isn't up to speed yet due to not having enough coffee in me :o so I'm having troubles recalling what that process is called and all. One heck of a time for a senior moment I'm thinking darn it .
(3) The canopies have the structure molded into them. will your process pick those up & include them?
(4) I picked up a Medical Vacuum Pump at a garage sale recently for $2 & it's a heavy bugger and not a bad looking piece of equipment except the gauge needs replacing. If I were to make a vacuum table, do you think this type of pump will have the necessary vacuum/strength to make medium to large sized canopies, wingtips & such?
(5) Can I or do I use a heat gun to help the process along or should I rig a metal tube to outside the oven for keeping the plastic hot while it's forming?
I think that should about cover it for now so Thanks a lot in advance for any info you can give me.

BTW, Nice build again Paul. I picked up a couple of boxes of computer paper recently for drawing out my fuselages and wings that I can fit onto it and I've yet to use it. Wished I'd had some so many times in the past and now that I have it I let the 3 yr. old Grandson draw on it

Standing By,
SJ
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:45 PM
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Default OK...

I don't have any experience with plaster of Paris (in molding), but I have played with it, & it seems to generate it's own heat. I don't know what will stick to it, or seal it.. perhaps Elmwr's cabinet glue thinned I brushed on? The way I mold is I make plunge molds or shrink molds. a plunge mold you heat the plastic, then "plunge" the male mold through the female reciever to the desired depth. I made a pine board frame to hold the ply up so I have plenty of depth to plunge with, and gove me a solid base to push on that holds the ply reciever on all sides. I also use tack strips to secure the plastic on the female ply reciever. This is nothing more than edge molding wot 3 small finishing nails tapped through..works great. On shrink molding, you shrink the plastic around a form mold. On cowls, and some canopies I use shrink molding using 2-3 liter soda-pop bottles (look at the Piper cowl, and the Top Dawg canopy..both are 2 liter soda bottle moldings) You apply heat to the plastic, and it shrinks tight around the mold forming the shape perfectly (unless there are complex indentations.. these will "tent" over & not form)
To make My forms, I use a profile sode viw, and the top view on the plans. I cut from ply and epoxy together forming a "T" structure. Then fill the sides with scrap & shape it using the ply forms as guides. The Top Dawg canopy is an exact duplicate of the 60's kit production no longer produced,.. AND it came from a FREE soda bottle! (how sweet is that!?? I did have to construct a "foot" on the end of the form to hold it correctly in the bottle and take up space (they only shrink so much!) on smaller canopies & cowls you can mold Dixie cups in the same manner. A better way to show you is with photos, so here's a mini-how-to from one of my threads..http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=246240&page=2
Sorry to put this all in your thread,.. but I was asked & felt obligated.. Bob
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Last edited by Demon-leather; 07-08-2008 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:29 AM
  #24  
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Bob, Glad to have you post this information.
It's always nice to see how other people attack a similar problem.
Don't be bashful now, post away.

Paul
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:36 AM
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Bob, I got a canopy for the Roaring 20 at the hobby shop. It was only two bucks, that was cheaper than shipping.

Your canopies turn out a lot better than mine.I check with you first before I try to make another. Hopefully you'll already have the mold.

Paul
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