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View Poll Results: What are you flying?
Not Flying yet
2
2.02%
Electric Planes - Under 4 pounds
85
85.86%
Electric Planes - Over 4 pounds
37
37.37%
Electric Gliders - Any kind
36
36.36%
Pure Gliders (no motor) - Any kind including free flight
23
23.23%
Glow powered
33
33.33%
Gas Powered
14
14.14%
Turbines
3
3.03%
Helicopters - Electric
49
49.49%
Helicopters - fuel
7
7.07%
Other - Tell us what you fly.
12
12.12%
Control Line - Electric
2
2.02%
Control Line - Fuel
4
4.04%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

What do you fly besides electrics?

Old 01-28-2009, 04:43 PM
  #51  
AEAJR
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I have only seen a few turbines fly and I would not have classified any of them as quiet. They were the loudest planes I had ever heard.

I will go along with the fact that some of the electrics that sport those little high speed props can be pretty loud. The F27 Stryker comes to mine. That brushless with the little prop makes one heck of a high pitched whine. The motor itself is almost silent. The prop tips much be breaking the sound barrier.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:20 PM
  #52  
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Of the two loudest planes we ever had at our field while I was there, one was a gasoline powered plane using what was loosely termed a muffler, but was only a right angled exhaust diverter. If the outlets of the "muffler" pointed at you, from as much as 100' away, the sound was painful, right down to your molars. Threshold of pain is supposed to be something like 135 dBA? The second loudest was actually an electric job. Daughter of one of our members was part of her Engineering School's weight lifting competition team, and we offered our field and expertise. For take-off, we were measuring almost 130 dBA from 15'. The motor was swinging a 16-6/10 fberglass prop fast enough for the tips to go supersonic. They had actually destroyed two props on the ground from overspeed.
Only a few of the glow engines normally flown at our field exceed 98 dBA on the ground at 9', let alone at 100'.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:24 PM
  #53  
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The only time I have ever been asked to ground my plane due to (in their opinion anyway) excessive noise was with my 36" Zipper (wing). 2680kV motor, 4S, 5.25x4.75E prop.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:54 PM
  #54  
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I have only seen one plane gounded at our field for the noise issue. And it wasn't noisy. In fact, it was probably the quietest powered plane of any type we have ever had at the field. Plane was a Jemco F6F Hellcat. Builder had built a collector box into the cowl, and left the muffler off the ST .60. From 6 or 7 feet away, you couldn't hear it running with the 13-6 prop.
To avoid the mess of constantly measuring different engines, making personal judgements as to noise levels and the attendant arguements, the club at that time had a rule that any planes flying at the field were required to have a commercial muffler system properly installed on the engine if it was larger than 0.19 cu. in displacement. The collector system and large circular cowl with dummy radial engine was VERY effective. But, it didn't meet the letter of the law. The point was brought up by somone who had been told that day they couldn't fly their .25 powered plane because of having no muffler on it.
I have a Wattage Mirage with a 400 brushed motor that is pretty loud with 7 cells and a 5.5-4.5 prop. In fact, slightly louder than some of my muffled glow .061s. And the plane is faster than some .40 powered sport planes.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:59 PM
  #55  
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You're right about the matter of "perspective"

In my other "job" as a volunteer Forest Ranger, I teach our Rules and Regulations class about legal sound levels for motorcycles and ATV's - and also where and how the complaints come in. You can get a 2 stroke motorcycle that is actually louder ("C" weighted dB's) - but the quieter 4 stroke bike is heard a lot further away due to the lower frequency of the sound - and gets complained about more often.
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:06 PM
  #56  
Elfi Flyer
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Originally Posted by 50+AirYears View Post
Wish I had about 10 grand discressionary money to get one.
A check is in the mail, plain brown wrapper, courtesy of the new economic stimulus plan.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:40 PM
  #57  
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Funny thing about noise and how it's percieved. Nearest neighbor to our club's current field is about a half mile. We fly about anything. We have had no complaints since we moved there in 2002, but one neighbor who drops over to watch made a comment that the only time he hears anything is when the larger gas (NOT glow or Turbine) planes are flying.
Most entertainng noise is some mornings when the local Sheriff's department is using their firing range about 3/4 mile South of our field for automatic weapon training. The sound of submachine guns early in the morning gets your attention.
The effects of noise and the frequency of the noise came home to me one day when I was taking a class at our local Community College which is about a mile UPWIND of our previous field. Came out of class one evening, and as I was getting into my car, realized I was hearing a model plane, first time I had heard one in the couple years I had been taking classes there. Looked East, and saw the plane, so I took a quick trip to the field. There was one gasser flying along with a numbr of glow powred planes. The gasser was a Quadra 42, with a Byron Quiet Mount. Owner had trouble blieving it was the only plane that could be heard at the College. In fact, he had trouble believing any engine could be heard that far away.
During a short period of time when we were having a dispute at that field with a neighor, I would take a trip at lunch to get a flight or three in. For several days, I would notice a local police cruiser stop on the road behind some scrub brush separating the field from the roadway. After a couple weeeks, the officer approached me, was curious about why the neighbor was complaining about noise when I was there. Turns out an RC Hand Launched Glider is the quietest kind of plane one can fly. The officers called out obviously couldn't hear a thing.
We eventually reached a compromise with the neighbor, especially after some noise level readings were made at his property line and showed we were within the community legal limits, and enjoyed a number of years of peace until a developer bought out the farmland we had our field on.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:42 PM
  #58  
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I do have a glow kit but... it's still in pieces, the motor laying on the self.

I have loads of electrics. The electric oil residue wipes off the plane so much easier than glow.

My local club has a dawn to dusk noise rule. Then there's the un-club where just about anything goes.

I don't know what all the fuss is about I have found that most fuel powered planes are not that loud. Then guys don't fly 24/7 at the field and if there is someone there during a weekday it's only a couple of people.

Some people will complain on a sunny 70deg day.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:42 PM
  #59  
Elfi Flyer
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Our flying site is a closed out land fill. The only complaints we "see" are the buzzards and hawks that occasionally float over the field and get annoyed when we fly too close to them. A double flap of the wings is "$%$#-you" in buzzard-speak.

Across the road is a cemetery. Haven't heard a peep in 20 years!!
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:06 PM
  #60  
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As one who flies off a field lost to one neighbour who didn't like model aircraft engine noise...

All this happened before I moved over here, to just north of the Disaster of Columbia, but it went like this.

The local Big Club - whose patch is named for one of the true pioneers of our RC hobby, one of their founder members - had a site atop a capped off landfill. This site was a local park, for RC and CL flying, with county built shelters, runways, water and electric supplies, the lot.

Just off the hill, a savvy developer made out well by building houses, within sight of said landfill, and selling them too. One buyer not only didn't like the noise, he was well connected at County hall, so knew who to whine to most effectively.

Short version - the site was lost to model use and rotted away quietly as the landfill was further developed for an electric generating station running off methane gas tapped off the landfill areas.

Eventually, one RC flier who had a business next door to the landfill, ascertained that the whiner who'd caused the loss had moved away, and eventually he and others recovered use of the site for 'quiet' flight only.

A lot of work by the new host club - originally a glider flying offshoot of the original Big Club - has gotten the site back to reasonable condition. It's also 'developed' from gliders only to mostly electric sports, with a very good two day sports electric-only funfly.

Oddly enough, the Big Club has yet another new site and is still suffering from neighbours who don't seem to like model aircraft engines - even if the site is seemingly in the middle of nowhere this time!

Moral of the story - you only need to p!$$ off one neighbour for things to go badly

Regards

Dereck.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:26 PM
  #61  
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Since we are talking about all kinds of flying, other than noise and construction, what else has been a problem that has cost people their flying sites?

We fly on a nature preserve. I think the greatest threat is the cry for more sports fields. As we are a glider and small electric club with a strong grounding in "silent flight" noise is not likely to be a problem for us.

How about you?
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:36 PM
  #62  
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One thing some of us have found out - - never let the group's hotheads deal with complaining neighbors (and especially not with the landlord!!).
And to avoid real problems, be very carefull of the guys who have the attitude of "I'm going to do things my way and to Inferno with anyody doesn't like it!". They'll get you closed down before you can realize what's happening.
The club I'm an officer in tries to handle any issues that come up in an intelligent way. We are on something like our second field in 51 years. We lost the first one to development. We are primarily an RC club, but we aree open to any intelligent flying. (Almost added safe and reasonable, but it's one and the same!). Another area club has a different attitude, and they have probably lost 6 or 7 fields in less time. Far as I know, they have only lost 1 field to development.
Oh, we did have some resistance to electrics for a while, but that's because a lot of members tried it in the early days when anything more than an extended powered glide was an achievement. They gave up because of the early problems. Now, almost everybody accepts electric flyers as part of the family, even if most of the club won't try it themselves.
You shold see the kicks most of our RC only fliers get out of watching a control line plane fly - - or some of the free flight models.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:55 PM
  #63  
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One neighbor of the most popular field in our borough (county the size of West Virgina) managed to get a new noise ordinance past that virtually eliminates all motorized model activity except electric in the borough. It is now illegal for a motorized model to make a 5 db increase in noise over the ambient db level at their property line. First this is impossible to comply with since it changes moment by moment and then they put the fine on the landowner so no one will lease or rent property for an airfield other than electric only.

It is still legal to fly full scale airplanes off the many lakes and small strips without a muffler but models are prohibited. This ordenance does not apply to chain saws, motor cycles, or any other noice making activities ecept churches (I guess that congregation had one neighbor also). All it takes is one neighbor!
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:02 PM
  #64  
50+AirYears
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Interesting! While I was typing my last post, AEAJRs post came up, and mine seems to have fit perfectly.
We also at our last field almost had a problem about complaints of us disturbing nesting and migrating birds. Till we had someone from the local Metroparks come out to observe. He was impressed by seeing vultures and even an Eagle take up formation flying with some of our planes. Otherwise, they seemed to ignore us. Also impressed to find out we were forbidding flying over one area of the field where there were a couple ground nests where the occupants did object to planes flying over them. We even had pictures of small groups of deer browsing and apparently watching our activities right on the field margins.
The new Metropark reservation went in less than a quarter mile from our field, and we never had an issue.
Our new field is on top of a sealed fly ash dump, surrounded by a couple other dumps, one active and one sealed. Also some farmland, and the landlord's own property, where several horses are kept with no problems. The owner even rides up occasionally to pass some time with us and watch.
I may have mentioned it previously, but one local community just a few years ago forbad any kind of model operation, apparently even kite flying and RC boats and cars, in local parks. Never heard why. That's the same community where we had our previous field. We always maintained good relations with them.
About 30 years ago, another club I was a member of lost the field for kind of an assinine reason. Neighbor wanted to ride their horses on the area. We only asked that they keep the horses off the runway and pit area. They objected, the runway and parking area wer smoother and didn't have brush and briars, so they made complaints to the township's board, and after a while, we were reluctantly asked to leave, since none of us lived in that township. Sheriff's report backed our contention that the sounds of our operation could not be heard from this person's house, but township resident vrs. outsiders, we had to leave.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:50 PM
  #65  
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While "noise complaints" constitute the biggest percentage, land sale comes in a very close second.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:20 PM
  #66  
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Mostly this, lately:


I used to fly .60-sized glow planes, but have gotten pulled away from it by my education. Now that I'm almost done with school, I'm looking at getting back in, but hoping to go electric instead. I've never yet flown an electric plane, but along with planes, I've driven glow and electric RC cars, so I know what I'm getting myself into. I love the simplicity, convenience, and elegance, and the lack of cleanup.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:39 PM
  #67  
50+AirYears
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Nothing is simpler, cleaner, quieter, more convenient, and more elegant than free flight hand launched glider.
I'm very happy I never lost interest in any form of model aviation, even if it drives my wife nuts.
A number of years ago, I had a conversation with the secretary of a local free flight club (since deceased) who was also an AMA official in a number of posts over the years. According to her, RCers in general lost a lot more fields than other types of flyers, not just because of the noise issue, but often because of problems with unsafe flying, such as flying over people and vehicles, buzzing people, flying over nearby houses and other buildings, and a general lack of consideration for other people.
My home town, when I was a kid, actually maintained a control line field, two 140' diameter circles, at a municipal park on the outskirts of town. It wasn't well suited for RC, especially the early RC, but we flew a lot of cl and smaller ff. We lost it because a majority of the serious modelers went into RC, and the field fell into disuse.
I say fly what you like, like what you fly, do it intelligently and safely, and don't put down other types.
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Old 01-30-2009, 09:13 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Elfi Flyer View Post
A double flap of the wings is "$%$#-you" in buzzard-speak.

Across the road is a cemetery. Haven't heard a peep in 20 years!!

Ok, RD... stop using my name in vain! Heh heh heh..... Is that a bird cemetery across the road? I mean, peeps and all?


I flew gas/fuel for years before electrics came out. I flew a huge Hughes 300 helicopter with a chainsaw engine in it... and NO gyro! The chainsaw engine was converted to burn nitro... talk about LOUD! I think that's the only aircraft I ever had with a pull start. But, when electrics got to the point that people were getting 10-15 min. flights... I sold all of my nitro engine planes. I did keep one engine... it was made in th 20's and burned regular gasloline. It has a carb with a float bowl.. and the engine is timed with points, like a car engine. It's a very valuable engine. I had 3 more like it and sold them on ebay for $700-$1000 each. Picture is attached.

Our club field is in a cow pasture, and we have a rubber mat runway and pit areas for each plane. I'm the only electric flyer there so far. When I first switched over... I went to a little Tiger Moth park flyer. Everyone laughed when I pulled it out.... but, the more I floated around with it, the more people started asking questions. I nearly got laughed out of the field one day when the wind came up and the Moth was actually flying backwards. So, I secretly built another Tiger Moth... but this is not your mother's Tiger Moth! It has been severely modified with a screaming brushless, built up wings and re-designed tail feathers. The laughing came to a screeching halt when I flew the Super Moth. I can outrun every gas plane at the field, and I've never had it at full throttle. At 3/4 throttle it's going over 100mph (estimated). People really don't like it when an 8 oz plane goes by their .90 fueler like it was tied to the fence. Power to weight... and I'm flying it with rudder and elevator only.

I also fly electric gyro copters. The above noted plane AND all of the gyro copters are nearly silent. The gyro copter I fly most has a HUGE brushless motor swinging a 10" prop... and it has enough power to do loops. Why would I want to fly a noisy fueler again?

But, I started doing aerial videos and used a Wingo to haul cameras up. The Wingo and the Zagi are two of the loudest electrics I've ever heard.
On both it is because they are pushers and the prop is so close to the wing, the prop screams louder than some fuel planes.

So, not all electrics are quiet... but I'll never go back to fuel.

Buzz
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Old 01-30-2009, 11:27 PM
  #69  
Elfi Flyer
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Originally Posted by Buzz
Our club field is in a cow pasture, and we have a rubber mat runway and pit areas for each plane.
Uh........you sure that mat is really ........uh..........rubber ?

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Old 01-31-2009, 03:07 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by caltrop View Post
Some people will complain on a sunny 70deg day.
Of course they will, it's too freakin' hot!!


...or cold...

Originally Posted by aramid View Post
lack of cleanup.
You haven't seen my friends fly
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