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Alternatives to hot glue?

Old 07-08-2012, 08:49 PM
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mclarkson
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Default Alternatives to hot glue?

I know everybody loves the hot glue but I've just about had it with this stuff.

I went to fly yesterday and it was hot (103F). When I took my biplane out of the trunk, the landing gear (hot glued) stayed in the car. When I picked up my F-22 foamie it rattled because the Rx and Esc (hot glued) were loose inside the fuse.

This has gotten tiresome. What are some alternatives that retain some of hot glue's good attributes? (Flexible, relatively easy to remove, etc?) How about that stuff Parkzone, etc., use to glue things in place?

Thanks.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:52 PM
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crxmanpat
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Mark,

I only use hot glue on the following:

Servos
Motor mounts
Control Horns

I don't build with it because it's heavy. If you are not using it on foam, Shoe Goo works good (but will melt foam).

For the ESC/battery/RX, I use velcro.
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:56 PM
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Wrongway-Feldman
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My favorite glues to use with foam are:
Beacon Foam Tac
Gorilla glue
Epoxy

Between those three there is nothing you can't join.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:22 PM
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flydiver
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Parkzone uses silicone caulk...like the stuff in your bathroom. Long set time though.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:19 PM
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For something I don't want to come apart, Gorilla glue. For receivers, servos and the like, I like to use servo tape.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:42 PM
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mclarkson
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I don't actually use a lot of hot glue. Generally just servos and such and then only if they're mounted in a pocket, etc. Gorilla is my go-to glue but it's not great for everything, nor is epoxy.

But even the little things I use it on come apart in the heat. I haven't used Foam Tac. How easy is it to remove? I wouldn't want to try to pry out a servo mounted with Gorilla Glue or epoxy, for example.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:08 AM
  #7  
flydiver
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Foam Tac is a foam friendly contact cement. It's very similar to UHU POR and not much different from other contact type cements in general character and use.
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:21 AM
  #8  
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Beacons
Welders for some stuff
Epoxy for must have holds
Hot glue for servos
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:44 AM
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kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
I know everybody loves the hot glue but I've just about had it with this stuff.

I went to fly yesterday and it was hot (103F). When I took my biplane out of the trunk, the landing gear (hot glued) stayed in the car. When I picked up my F-22 foamie it rattled because the Rx and Esc (hot glued) were loose inside the fuse.

This has gotten tiresome. What are some alternatives that retain some of hot glue's good attributes? (Flexible, relatively easy to remove, etc?) How about that stuff Parkzone, etc., use to glue things in place?

Thanks.
Were you using high temp hot glue, or low temp hot glue?

If you've got some scrap pieces of foam, give this a try. Get some foam safe thin CA, and a box of baking soda from the local grocery store.

Cut a grove into the foam, lay a piece of piano wire in it, and put a layer of baking soda in the groove. About 1/8 inch of baking soda would be good. Hit it with CA til all baking soda is wet. It only takes a few drops of CA. Put in another layer of baking soda, and repeat the process. Keep going until the glued area is flush with the surface of the foam.
This baking soda / CA stuff is very difficult to sand, it's rock hard.

You don't want to pour on to much CA at once, it can get hot. This stuff sets instantly. You can then try to pull out the wire and see if the "glue" joint is any good.

Nice thing about the baking soda and CA, high temperatures don't affect it. I've used this process to glue in the magnets for a www.gobrushless.com motor. Those magnets will break before they come loose. (Stick the magnet in place with CA, then fill in the area between the magnets with baking soda, and hit it with CA. Don't let the baking soda stick out to high. You need a file to remove it.)

I've used this in balsa, and have zero experience with foam. It's worth a try. (But scrap foam first!!!) This stuff is not flexible, and might rip out the foam before it lets loose in a crash.

If any readers of this thread try this, good or bad, let us know how it works. Especially if it is real bad. I'm curious myself, but don't have any foam safe CA.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:19 AM
  #10  
Wildflyer
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I gave up on hot glue back in the mid 70's, Hobie Hawk came with fiberglass tube pushrods, that had hot glue holding the wires in place. More than 1 Hobie Hawk ate the grass when the pushrods slipped, and this was before the low temperature hot glue came out, if you had a dark color on the body, it was unbelievable how hot it could get inside.
When I was in collage, my little dark blue car got so hot one summer day, a thermometer that read to 140 f exploded ! when i tried to roll the window down the hard plastic window knob felt like a marshmallow.
Sorry but I don't trust it enough to use hot glue.

Gorilla glue works great on models foam or wood, but you must clamp the joint together or it may spread if the foaming glue can't get out.

Several types of caulking can be used, but only use water clean up, or test on scrap. The drying time is usually overnight, or you have used too much.

Hey we used to wait overnight for EVERY joint to cure.

I have used baking soda and ca glue for 30 years. Fills gaps like the thick ca, but it can get very hot.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:23 AM
  #11  
solentlife
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Be very careful when using Silicon Caulking .... many of them use mild acid to cure. That's the familiar smell you get when using it.

You need to get plastics safe Silicon which cures by other means.

Hot glue - to original poster - is not a fav of mine. I only use it to fill in dings / dents etc. in wing leading edges etc. or to fill in around servos that are double taped in place.
To trust a model to ot glue is in my book a disaster waiting to happen.

Kyle ... CA + baking soda. This is an old trick and in fact you can do it with just about any powder or sanding dust. If you were sanding balsa models ... you could collect the balsa dust and use that to fill in various dropping thin CA on to it. BUT there is one problem with CA that is not really a good thing - it's a stress point creator ... It sets so hard that the border of CA to material is a break point. Second when used to strengthen wood / balsa - it actually is one of the worst acts you can do to your model - as there is absolutely no give in that now.
A better filler agent is PVA with powder ... mixed to a paste. Or in fact PVA on it's own. PVA never sets up rock hard, it has a degree of flexibility / give in it that helps a joint survive. Build a traditional wing with CA and it tends to shatter when crashed, build with PVA and the difference is significant. CA was the wonder glue in the early days ... but we soon realised the limits !!

Nigel
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:16 PM
  #12  
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I like to use that UHU POR glue which says it's expanded polystyrene glue,it works really well but it's a contact glue where you have to put it onto both surfaces,leave it a few mins after applying it then stick the two together.
The only draw back is that it can take up to 24 hours or more to go off,but if your not in a hurry it works really well IMO and i've used it on a few models now and i've got no complaints.
Foam safe super glue is ok for some jobs but i find it to be to brittle for my liking so i don't use it as much as i'd like to,i also use 30 min epoxy as well which doesn't dry as brittle as the 5min epoxy.

For my RX's,batteries and ESC's i use velcro with the glue already applied and that works well.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:56 PM
  #13  
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When I found I had a bad servo in my Apprentice and HH sent me a replacement, they told me to use bathroom calk to hold it in. Worked fine.

Now my CTH Albatross is built with hot glue and Goop. So far, the hot glue has held fine. But I don't leave the plane in the car any longer than I have to.

Last edited by MX5Seeker; 07-09-2012 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Spelling...
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #14  
Turner
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Silicone sealants in a tube cure by exposure to water moisture in the air.

These are my favorite for gluing servos or receivers into foam planes. Yes, it's an over night cure but they are strong and flexible and very easy to cut out later.

If using to hold a servo in a pocked use only on the sides, not the bottom of the pocket. An easy slice around the sides releases the servo. If you put it in the bottom of the pocket you won't be able to get the blade to it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:23 PM
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kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Kyle ... CA + baking soda. This is an old trick and in fact you can do it with just about any powder or sanding dust. If you were sanding balsa models ... you could collect the balsa dust and use that to fill in various dropping thin CA on to it. BUT there is one problem with CA that is not really a good thing - it's a stress point creator ... It sets so hard that the border of CA to material is a break point. Second when used to strengthen wood / balsa - it actually is one of the worst acts you can do to your model - as there is absolutely no give in that now.
Nigel
Good information. As for me, my main adhesive is plain old Titebond, or that yellow carpenter glue. This stuff is very poor for working with foam though, it is an air drying type of adhesive. Inside the foam, Titebond might never cure.

A few years back I glued together two pieces of balsa sheeting, one with CA, one with Titebond. As weighed on a gram scale, after the Titebond was fully cured, it weighed LESS than the CA.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:13 AM
  #16  
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I really like the welders adhesive for working with foam. Built 2 EPP planes with it now and super strong bonds that are also a bit flexible.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:38 PM
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solentlife
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Good information. As for me, my main adhesive is plain old Titebond, or that yellow carpenter glue. This stuff is very poor for working with foam though, it is an air drying type of adhesive. Inside the foam, Titebond might never cure.

A few years back I glued together two pieces of balsa sheeting, one with CA, one with Titebond. As weighed on a gram scale, after the Titebond was fully cured, it weighed LESS than the CA.
Traditional model building with balsa fuselage and ply doubler called for Contact glue to be used. In early days of my building - I ignored the advice and used epoxy ... Then an older guy showed me why contact glue was preferred. The fuselage sides could be formed to the bend and shape required AFTER the glue had set. But with epoxy and other general glues - you couldn't do that. Second that the contact glue held that doubler in place securely ... if you made mistake when bringing them together ... it was difficult to separate them !!

Today with foam - my main glue is 5 min epoxy. Coming up second in my arsenal for foam is Hot glue but as a filler only. CA has no place in my foam arena.
Next for my conventional builds - then it's PVA wood glue, with epoxy in the areas that need solid strength. CA is only used as a tacking agent to hold something while the main glue sets.



Nigel
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:31 PM
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kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post

Coming up second in my arsenal for foam is Hot glue but as a filler only. CA has no place in my foam arena.
Next for my conventional builds - then it's PVA wood glue, with epoxy in the areas that need solid strength. CA is only used as a tacking agent to hold something while the main glue sets.



Nigel
Is that the "High Temperature" hot glue, or "Low Temperature" hot glue?

As for CA adhesives, I've found several of my ARF balsa/ply models had the plywood landing gear plate secured to the fuselage with very thin CA.

IMHO, this area is one place that requires epoxy. Both my club members and I have had CA glued plywood landing gear plates come completely off the model airplane, even on a good landing.

One old timer in our club takes every one of his ARF models and beefs up the landing gear structure with fiberglass and epoxy. He's never had one come apart. His models are mostly gasoline powered size units.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:47 PM
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road king 97
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I use tight bond 11 on all my balsa builds and gorilla glue on foamy;s .I use hot glue just to tack things together till the gorrila glue cures. joe
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:32 AM
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kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by road king 97 View Post
I use tight bond 11 on all my balsa builds and gorilla glue on foamy;s .I use hot glue just to tack things together till the gorrila glue cures. joe
Geeze
I've got to buy a bottle of Gorilla Glue and try it out.

Does Gorilla glue cure or set when trapped inside foam?
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:10 AM
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mclarkson
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Again, I love Gorilla Glue but for some things - holding servos in their pockets, holding motor wires out of the way, etc. - it's just too much.

I've never had a problem with Gorilla Glue setting when trapped inside of foam. The biggest 'problems' it has are that it foams up, needs moisture, and takes 20 minutes or so to set. I don't usually mind the foam and actually like it when doing repairs on foamies, as it expands into all the little cracks and holes.
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Old 07-11-2012, 03:56 PM
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road king 97
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Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Again, I love Gorilla Glue but for some things - holding servos in their pockets, holding motor wires out of the way, etc. - it's just too much.

I've never had a problem with Gorilla Glue setting when trapped inside of foam. The biggest 'problems' it has are that it foams up, needs moisture, and takes 20 minutes or so to set. I don't usually mind the foam and actually like it when doing repairs on foamies, as it expands into all the little cracks and holes.
The new gorilla glue that dry's white when put with a little water dry's in a couple minutes ,it might take longer to cure but i can let things go from holding in a minute or so. It foams yes but if you wipe it off before it cures it's all good. The gorrila glue fills voids by foaming and that my friends helps it to make contact with both side's of glued parts to give a great bond . If you tape seams to stop nost of the foaming helps but i just trim mine with a razor knife before it finaly cures.My last point is is that its cheaper than foam ca or epoxy and used in MODERATION its great. joe
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:22 PM
  #23  
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There is more than one type of Gorilla glue.
When you talk about using it now, you need to specify which of the three types, all quite different from each other.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:36 PM
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road king 97
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Whoops sorry rodneh here ,this is what i use. I wacked my landing gear on this plane and broke them both in more than a couple places .I cut out new gear but just for the fun of it i glued them back together and flew it off of blacktop with the old broke set .After many flights and me goofing off low to the deck they have not broken or even cracked on the 6 places where they were broke. joe
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:34 PM
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eagle33
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Rodneh - I didn't know there were three types of gorilla glue. What are they and how do they differ?
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