Hover Master

Wow thanks allot my confusion is so much because I have read about this is bad that is good then it comes back to well it might be the way it is installed.
So back in the day there was allot of shared receivers but it was not so when it came to PCM you had to use same Type of radio receiver only.
And also Seems there has been some issues with DSM for JR And I have read many post on the FR Sky Seems the Hopping is really strong solid compliant and this New Trananis with open Source And up to 32 Channels never would use that many but it seems really Rock Solid and Looks good ,,, Just seen some that do come DOA but living in the USA seems getting a replacement is easy,, And just not sure yet and yes I won't buy something because IT cost less I want quality specially when your flying a 2 plus thousand Aircraft. I love fly my Big Birds just not good to be so nervous about what if thoughts.
FYI When Spectrum first came out with 2.4 there was so much BS and good and bad been about 10 years since they first let us mess with it but FCC and all the other stuff was still in the works back then. Also I was racing X and B Hydro's back then and it could not handle the vibration well.
Thank you so much I am building my stuff up and ready to do it after two years of layoff because of Cancer so now it is time to get up to date make the right decisions.

kyleservicetech

Per my spectrum analyzer, the frequency hopping Futaba 2.4 Ghz radio system is a narrow band system. A narrow band transmission of multiple frequencies. At least as compared to the Spektrum DSM2 that runs on two wide band transmissions, and the Spektrum DSMX that runs wide band transmission, PLUS frequency hopping.

Nice thing about wide band transmission, you can plant a narrow band FHSS signal right in the middle of a wide band transmission, and it won't have any effect on the wide band transmission.

kyleservicetech

IMHO, a very rough estimation on where to spend your dollars in a model is 1/3 for the model, 1/3 for the radio system, 1/3 for the power system.

So, it would make little sense to spend $6.00 for a receiver to control your $2000 model aircraft. As for reliability, if you're flying in small clubs, where perhaps no more than a half dozen or so people are flying at the same time, I suspect just about any decent name brand radio will do the job. Just stay away from those brands where people have found high numbers of DOA's right out of the box.

The Spektrum line is well known, and respected. They have receivers from $29 to over $600. For a $2000 model, IMHO, a Spektrum receiver with two or three slave receivers would work well.

One very important issue with this 2.4 Ghz radio stuff, is the importance of a rock solid battery supply for the receiver and servos. Especially with the newer digital servos. The days of a five cell "AA" Nih receiver battery pack are over for $$$$ giant scale models. IMHO, for models in the area of $2000, a primary/backup battery pack is mandatory.

As for me, I've got a LOT of experience with those A123 receiver (and electric motor) battery packs. They work, and work well. You will never get a voltage sag on an A123 battery pack, unless its been run dead. Those packs can and will deliver 40 Amps, and still put out 2.8 Volts per cell. A two cell A123 pack is a direct drop in for a five cell Nih pack. No voltage regulator is required.

http://www.radicalrc.com/category/A123-Cells-Packs-199 (SKU Number: RRC2S2300 Pack) Any quality balancing type battery charger with the LiFe or A123 mode can recharge these cells. Maximum charge current is limited by the battery wire size. Servo type wires can handle up to an amp or three. With #12 battery wire, these cells can be charged at 10 Amps.

Storage voltage on an A123 is not critical. Full charge, half charge, don't matter. Just top them off after a days flying. They will hold 95% of their charge after sitting around for a full year.

Spektrum also has their "Model Match" feature. (I don't believe any other radio mfg has this feature) If you've got several aircraft in your transmitter memory, the model match feature absolutely will not allow you to take off with the wrong model in your transmitter. If the transmitter model doesn't match the model ready to take off, the model on the ground is dead. Dead. Dead. I've seen my share of crashed models where the pilot took off with the wrong model setup. Reversed ailerons equals guaranteed crash.

For an $$$$ model, this Spektrum 9 channel receiver has built in dual battery inputs, along with three slave receivers. Spektrum also has a 12 channel receiver for a bit more.

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...odID=SPMAR9110

Here is the Spektrum receiver lineup.
http://www.spektrumrc.com/Air/Receivers.aspx

AEAJR

Let me ask some questions:

1) What radio do you have now?

2) Do you like it? Is it module based?

3) Why are you changing? Is there something wrong with what you have now or do you just feel compelled to upgrade?

4) If you are looking at a new radio, what special features do you need? What kind of flying do you do?


Here is the advice I give to first time radio buyers. Maybe you will find a nugget of value here:





How To Select Your First Radio

by Ed Anderson

If you go through the beginner section on any of the major forums you will see this question, or some version of it over and over again. And you will see it in the advanced flying sections too. That’s because the radio is the single most important tool you will use to fly your model aircraft. Without the radio control system there is no radio control flying. So, how to choose?

If you are totally new, never flown, and if you are going to learn without using a buddy box, I usually recommend an RTF, ready to fly package that includes the airplane, radio, all the electronics already installed in the plane. It usually includes the battery and charger too. This eliminates so many decisions and considerations and points of confusion. This lets the pilot focus on learning to fly. Which RTF? That is a question for another discussion but there are lots of good ones out there. They all come with a radio that should be adequate to the task of flying that plane. And the value of the radio, in that package, is typically so small that even if you never use it for anything else, that’s OK.

Once you have your basic flying skills down, NOW we can start to discuss what you want and need in a radio that will carry you forward. You will have more time to read and talk to other pilots so you will have begun to learn about the aspects of RC flying. You will be better prepared to understand the information below and to address the questions we will ask as we try to guide you.


Standard vs. Computer Radios

A standard radio is one without model memories and usually very little, if any mixing capabilities. The Spektrum DX5e or the Hitec Laser 4 would be examples of standard radios. Standard radios are fine when you get them in RTFs or if you plan to have a dedicated radio for each plane. Otherwise get a radio that has model memories, usually called a computer radio. Enough on that topic.


Brands vs. Off Brands

There a lots of good radios out there. The major brands in North America are Futaba, JR, Spektrum, Hitec and Airtronics. I am going to add Tactic here as it is sold and supported by Hobbico, a major distributor/retailer that also distributes Futaba. I don’t think Tactic’s market share is all that big but I think it is going to grow.

All others have relatively small market shares, but that doesn’t mean they are bad. The major brands are all safe bets and all have great service. You will find those who love one over the other and those who hate one vs. the other. But in the end, they all have good products. If you go outside these brands you may get a great radio too but the level of service and support may not be up to the standards of the brands. So if you go outside the brands, consider where you will get help if you need it. Going “off brand” can be quite easy if your friend has one or if you a member of a forum with lots of users of this radio.


Budget

How much are you willing to spend? As you shop for radios notice that radios often come packaged with other stuff. That might be receivers, servos, cables, switches, etc. When you evaluate the price of one radio vs. another you MUST take into account what is included in the package. A $150 radio is not cheaper than a $180 radio package that comes with a $50 receiver.

The more you can spend, the more capable radio you can buy and the less important the rest of the questions become. Once you get over $400 for one of the brand name radios, they all pretty much can do what you are likely to need to do to fly almost anything, as long as they have enough channels. You will get all kinds of opinions from advanced pilots as to what is better for what, but they are talking shades of gray here. If you can spend $400 or more on a major brand radio, then buy whatever you like or whatever your friend has or what you see in the champion pilots flying in the radio ads.

If you don’t have $400 for a radio, then you have to be more selective. But you can still get a very capable radio for under $250. You just have to be a little more specific as we start finding limitations. Of course these limitation may not matter to you so don’t feel you are buying junk. Just maybe you are not buying a lot of stuff you don’t need.

When discussing budget, state a number. Asking for an inexpensive radio means nothing. When considering my needs, I consider $250, for the radio alone, an inexpensive radio. How about you? No matter what it is, start with a number. Does you budget include a receiver? Servos? State a number and then define it.

Naturally there are lots of used radios. Buying used radio is like buying a used car, it may be great or it may be a dog. When you buy used you take a risk. As long as you accept that, you can consider used. My two main radios were purchased used.

Last, forget about the “best” radio or the one that will last you the rest of your flying career. There is no best and we all tend to want to trade up after a while. But even a basic 6 channel computer radio can serve you for decades of flying fun if your needs are basic. I have friends who have been flying for decades, who are instructors and who are flying radios that they love but that would not meet my needs at all.


Trainer Port

Trainer ports have two main uses, working with a simulator and attaching to a buddy box. Will you be working with an instructor using a buddy box? If so, what radios will work with your instructor’s radio? If you are buying a simulator and want it to work with your radio, make sure the trainer port on your radio will work with that simulator. Buying a cool radio then not being able to get flying instructions or working with our simulator really doesn’t work well.


Types of Aircraft



Computer radios typically have some level of software for airplanes and most include some type of helicopter software too. This software can go from basic to advanced and usually the more advanced the software the higher the price of the radio. Many do not include specific software for sailplanes/gliders which are the same thing for the purposes of this discussion. That does not mean that you can’t use them to fly gliders. Gliders are just specialized forms of airplanes. What it means is that the radio’s software will not include the special mixes that many gliders pilots want. So, if you plan to fly gliders you may wish to look for a radio that includes glider mixes. If gliders/sailplanes are in your plans then read this article:
http://www.flyesl.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=223


There are also quad copters, aerial photography and first person view as other forms of flying. They may require special software or they may require extra channels. Before you buy a radio, talk to people who do this kind of flying. It would be very disappointing to buy a radio only to find it can’t fly the aircraft you just purchased.


How Does it Feel in Your Hand?

For many pilots this is the deciding factor between multiple radio choices. Let’s face it, we each have different hands, different size hands and how the radio feels in our hands matters. One of my good flying buddies purchased the same radio I have. I love it. However he hates how it feels in his hands so he purchased something else. If possible, try to pick up several different radios and see how they feel. Can you easily put the sticks in the far corners? Are the switches convenient? If it has side or rear sliders, are they convenient to work and reach? Don’t overlook the feel. For many this is the key factor.


How Many Channels?

While there are some interesting four and five channel computer radios, I am going to recommend you get a computer radio with six or more channels. I don't see any real benefit for having less than six channels, as the cost difference is small and the benefits of 6 or more channels is high. Even if you are flying a rudder elevator glider or 3 channel electric airplane today, next year you may be adding ailerons and flaps and landing gear. So get a radio that can handle at least that, and that would be 6 channels.

Why would you ever need more? Here is a typical channel breakdown, regardless of whether you are flying electric, glow, gas or gliders, giant scale or highly detailed scale models. Jets, advanced helicopters, first person view (FPV) may have other needs, but it still comes down to channels.

Rudder – 1 or 2
Elevator - 1 or 2
Ailerons - 1 to 4
Spoilers - 1 or 2
Flaps - 1 to 2
Tow hook - 1
Landing gear - 1
Motor – 1 to 2
Smoke, lights, Other – 1 to ?

That makes 4, 5, 6, up to 18 channels depending on what kind of aircraft you have and how you set it up. So how many do you need?

In my opinion, most sport flyers will be well served for a long time with a 6 channel entry to mid level sport computer radio but more channels could come in handy in the future. If you are planning to become a more serious competition pilot, plan to fly giant scale, full house sailplanes, jets or are very interested in having cameras, lights, smoke or other things on your plane that you can control from the radio plan for more than 6 channels. For example I have 8 channel radios. I am only using 6, but the software requires that one of those ailerons be on channel 7 so even though I am using 6 channels I need at least 7 to do what I want to do.


Basic Features

Most currently available new computer radios offer the following features. Regardless of what you are flying, I highly recommend your radio have these features.

* Model Memories (at least 10)
* Low Battery Warning
* Trims on the channels controlled by the stick(s).
* Timer – highly recommended but not required
* End Point Adjustment/Adjustable Travel Volume
* Subtrim (fine centering on the servos during set-up)
* Dual Rates and Exponential on ailerons and elevator.
If you are flying 3D you want these on the rudder too.
* Elevon/delta wing and V-tail mixes


If it doesn’t have at least these, don’t buy it!


Model Memories



How many planes do you plan to own and fly? Twenty years ago, when everyone was building kits, when electronics were costly, you might have 2 planes flying and maybe 3 in the hanger without servos, receiver or a motor. Oh, there were always guys with 30 planes, but if you had 3 models flyable then 3 model memories were plenty. Today, I would consider 10 the minimum. Planes are cheap, electronics are cheap and “bind and fly” types are so easy to pick up and take flying. Some radios will now let you save models to a memory card or to download them to your computer. If you can save aircraft profiles outside the radio, 10 model memories are probably plenty to hold what you are currently actively flying. If you can’t save them then I would consider 10 an absolute minimum. More is always better.


Type of flying and surface mixes

After model memories, surface mixes are one of the great features that computer radios bring to the game. Input to one control can move 2 or more servos in a coordinated fashion to create the kind of surface control you need. I use some mixes that move 5 servos at once. This can reduce the pilot's workload while providing very consistent behavior. In some cases these mixes can be overridden during the flight or can be turned on and off.

In the list below, where two surfaces are listed, the first is the master and the second follows, sometimes called the slave channel. The following list is what I would consider the minimum set I would want in even an entry level radio. They may be named mixes or they may be able to be created by “user mixes”.

* Flapperon - requires two aileron servos on separate channels
* Aileron to rudder mix (coordinated turns)
* Flap to elevator mixing for landing and glide path control.
* At least 1 user defined mix after the above.

You should find these on even the most entry level computer radio. If it doesn’t have these, I would recommend you don’t buy it.

For many pilots this is all they will ever need. But if you plan to get into full house sailplanes, competition pattern flying or other advanced forms of flying you may need other mixes. Talk to friends and people on the forums to ask them what mixes they use. Some are only available in those much more expensive radios so don’t put them on your required list unless you have the budget and REALLY need it. Remember, people flew RC aircraft for decades with 4 channel radios without any surface mixing, and so can you.


Receiver Selection


Without the receiver, the radio is useless, so receiver selection is important. If you are flying larger planes you may have lots of room for the receiver, but if you are flying small planes, the size and weight of the receiver can be critical. Putting a 1 ounce receiver in a 6 ounce plane just doesn’t make sense and it likely won’t fit. If you are into indoor flying or micro planes you want them really small and light. Some brands offer “bricks” that are ultra light packages that combine the receiver with the ESC and perhaps servos. If this is your interest, make sure your radio brand has these available.

If you have a 6 channel radio you can use a receiver that has more than 6 channels. Sometimes we use those extra slots for things that the radio does not control, like plane finders or lights. So having receivers available with more slots than your radio can control might be useful.

Most 2.4 GHz radios have very specific protocols that are used for the radio to talk to the receiver. In many cases you must buy the same brand of receiver as radio. And in some cases there are different protocols within the brand. For example, Futaba has FASST and FHSS radios in their line. The receivers are specific to the protocol. So a Futaba FHSS radio can’t fly a Futaba FASST receiver even though they are both Futaba 2.4 GHz systems.

In the 72 MHz days it was common to find “compatible” receivers. For example, you could buy a Hitec or Berg receiver to use with your, Futaba, JR or Airtronics radio. That went away with the dawn of 2.4 GHz, but compatible receivers are becoming available. Today there are compatible receivers for Spektrum/JR DSM2, Futaba FASST and Hitec AFHSS 2.4 GHz radios. There may be others as well. If the cost of receivers is important to you, and you would consider compatibles, then this may help influence your choice of radios.


Bind and Fly/TX-R/others

In the old days, 10 years ago, you purchased a plane and put a receive in it that worked with your radio. Today you can buy planes that are all set to go including servos, and receiver. That is great, but you have to have a matching radio in order to fly them. Horizon Hobby has a huge line of BnF, Bind and Fly planes. If you have a Spektrum or JR DSM2 or DSMX radio you can just buy these planes, bind them to your radio and go fly.

Hobbico also has the line of transmitter ready, TX-R, planes. Their Tactic radios work with these TX-R planes. However they also have an external module, the AnyLink2, that will work with many radios. Once you have an AnyLink2 module can fly any of their TX-R planes with a variety of brands of radios.

If BnF or TX-R matters to you, then you want a radio that will work with these aircraft. Not everyone cares, but if you do, take this into consideration.


Other Features

There are all kinds of special features appearing on radios. Telemetry, touch screens, the ability to update the software over the internet and so on. How important are these? You decide. Talk to those who love them and those who laugh at them, then make your decision.


The Best and the Last

People ask which is the best radio. There is no best. The best is the one that you can’t afford or that will be released 6 months after you buy the one you bought. So don’t worry about the best, concern yourself with what will work for you, your budget and your flying style. All of the major brands are good. And there are many “off brands” that are good as well.

Some people want to buy the radio that will last them a lifetime. Well, even an entry level computer radio can fulfill that, if your requirements never exceed the capability of the radio. But the fact is that we all get the bug to upgrade. So my suggestion is to look at something you feel will last you 3 to 5 years. Who knows what you will want in a radio 5 years from now. Ten years ago we did not have 2.4 GHz radios or radios that could be upgraded over the internet. So forget the forever radio. In the world of computers and electronics, 5 years is forever.

Now that we have covered the basics it is time for you to ask questions. Read the advertisements, look at the boxes, talk to friends and ask your questions. We are all here to help.



It can be hard to separate fact from opinion or outright fiction but
at least you can see what is being discussed. Great place to ask questions.

pmullen503

Frsky Taranis has this feature when using "X" series receivers (but not with older "D" or "V" series receivers.)

kyleservicetech

Good information, thanks for posting it.

Hover Master

Thanks again FYI I think I am really up to date with the Lipo stuff I have life batteries right now 32 and 21 hundred Amp H There really great for hooking up to the power box for dual batteries no need for B Eliminator And it seems to handle my MG servos well specially the 200 plus power for my large surfaces.
I can always put lager Lipos rating at 4000 plus because the power box has a built in BEC but seems it works really good with Life .. Now for the C rating I know for power of the Engine The higher the rating the better I have either 35c or up to 90 c in my copters better punch and cooler everything on the system.
I hope we can get to know each other I need a Mentor to guide me through the trans ions . Hear about been there and done this is always wanted.
Tanks again
Jerry

Hover Master

Okay Compelled would be the feeling I have a JR 10x PCM love it works great the guys at the filed are saying seems like some low life types out there are trying to make everyone switch to 2.4 .. not naming names I also have a Air Tronics RD 8000
.. I Know they make Modules for the JR but After that The receiver is allot of money.
And the other thing is it is only for Helis So I Have been looking for a 2.4 that will handle planes and of course now a days seems they got smart and allowed Planes and helies and Gliders and planes on the same Transmitter,,, I been bending to Futaba and the SG 14 Chanel Transmitter really looks okay and it is really able to handle all the receivers Futaba has, and a tad under 600 Dollars so I have been thinking about that.
I will be going to Spectrum and checking out there systems Just availability and cost is the key and of course just how stout the system is.
You really covered allot thank you so very much.
Jerry

AEAJR

Here are some thoughts. You can do this the expensive way and buy everything new. Some people just love buying all new stuff, throwing all the old stuff out or selling it off.

Or you can do this the low cost easy way. Convert what you have and do it over time. Quick and simple.

If you like the 10X and want to stay with it then look at the FrSky module. If you want to dip your toe into the 2.4 world at low cost the FrSky approach is the way to go.

FrSky is low cost and has outstanding reputation. This is quality stuff. If nothing else this will allow you learn about the 2.4 world with very little cost or effort. Module and receiver will come to about $60 total.

JR module is about $23
http://www.alofthobbies.com/jr-trans...ry-module.html

This might be a good receiver to choose - $26
http://www.alofthobbies.com/frsky-d8...telemetry.html

You plug the module into the radio just like changing channels on 72 MHz. Nothing to wire, nothing to solder.

Bind the receiver - procedure is in the instructions

Put the receiver into a test plane. you can pull the 72 MHz receiver out, or if you have room, just leave it there, and put in the FrSky without changing anything in the radio.

If the model is wood, foam, fiberglass the installation is easy. If it is carbon fiber or metal, then you need to get the antenna outside the fuselage. The actual 2.4 GHz antenna is very short but FrSky has longer antenna to make it easy to get the antenna outside a carbon fuselage. Just follow the instructions that come with the receiver. Don't forget to range check.

Nothing to reprogram in the radio. Just confirm the set-up and go fly.

If you like FrSky and want to keep your current radio then you just keep buying receivers which run $20 to $40 each.

If you want to fly a plane that is still on 72 MHz, you just swap the module and go fly.

That is how I have done the transition. I have Futaba 9C Super. Popped in a Futaba module and Futaba FASST receiver and went and flew. Some of my planes are still on 72 MHz so I just swap modules.

If I had known about FrSky when I did it I would have gone that route as the cost would be a fraction of what it cost me to go to Futaba and everyone I know who has FrSky LOVES it. And these are mostly high end competition sailplane pilots. Planes cost $1000 and $4000 and are flown very high and very far out.

Rather than try to figure things yourself, my suggestion would be to call Aloft Hobbies

Phone Hours: 8:30am - 4:30pm PST Mon - Friday
(We encourage emails for most conversations.)
949-288-3331
contact@alofthobbies.com

These are great guys who can help you get up and running properly and easily.

And, in the end, if you decide to buy a new radio you have spent $60 to bring your old radio into the modern world and to learn about 2.4 GHz. And Frsky can bring you into the world of telemetry if you wish.

This is about the most painless approach I can suggest. Again, if I had known then what I know now I would be flying a FrSky module in my Futaba Radio and FrSky receivers in my high end competition gliders.

Side note: FrSky also makes receivers that are compatible with my Futaba FASST receivers and my Futaba FASST module. I have two of them in my gliders and they work great! If you decide to buy that Futaba 14SG, you can buy Futaba receivers or you can buy FrSky receivers to use with the 14SG.

AEAJR

As for the RD8000. I don't think that is a module radio. FrSky has a DIY kit that you can add inside the radio. Has to be soldered but it will let you convert that to FrSky 2.4 GHz too. There is a way to allow you to switch this back and forth between 72 and 2.4 as well.

DIY Module
http://www.alofthobbies.com/diy-telemetry-module.html



The process would be very similar to this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBa4XR5IYo4




More work than a module but now both of your radios are on 2.4 GHz and they can both fly the same FrSky receivers.

AEAJR

One last point. If you like the approach above but want to fly the Horizon hobby Bind and Fly planes, well just get a Spektrum module too. DM9 will give you 9 channels on Spekturm DSM2. This is the older protocol but for the BnF parkflyer and micro planes this is just fine. People fly giant scale on DSM2 even though the newer protocol is DSMX. The DSMX receivers also work with DSM2, so no problem.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...ble-SPMMSJR720

Now you would be flying JR 72 MHz, FrSky 2.4 and Spektrum 2.4 all with your JR radio. Cool! And you didn't have to learn a new radio or reprogram any of your planes.

kyleservicetech

Yeah
The Spektrum DX8 and DX9 transmitters, along with likely other brands of TX have an LCD display that draws an outline of your model. Just select what type of model you have, and the Spektrum TX's automatically assign transmitter sticks, and servos for your model. Can't be much simpler than that.

DX9 Manual
http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SPMR9900-Manual_EN.pdf (Check out page 13 in this manual, page 35 for Heli's)

AEAJR

With more and more third party receivers being offered we seem to have gotten past the need to have the same brand of transmitter and receiver. But which are good and which are junk? Just like in the old 72 MHz days reputation and word of mouth (postings on this forum) can be helpful.

However, no one, not even the big brand names, are going to replace your plane if you crash and believe it was the receiver that caused it.

So buy and fly wisely:

• be sure to do a proper range check at the start of each day.
• double check power as most problems blamed on the receiver are really power issues
• Make sure you have the antenna clear of other things that can block the signal
• make sure the receiver can't bounce around in the plane. Even if the receiver isn't damaged it can stress the servo, battery and other wires in the plane.
• Fully check the plane at the start of the day. Just because it was fine when you put it away doesn't mean it is fine now.

jeholliday

I hope I got this right as I have not flown radio for over a decade. I got one of the car radios on 2.4 GHz to use on a control line plane. So far it has worked great. My question is can I buy same brand receivers and use just the one transmitter for different CL planes?

AEAJR

Yes! You just bind the receivers to the radio, like a blue tooth headset and your phone. The Radio puts a unique signature in the receiver so that the receiver only responds to the signal from that radio. I have lots of planes being used with the same radio. And your 2.4 and the other guys 2.4 radios won't interfere with each other. So no frequency control required.

jeholliday

Thank you.

easystar123

The best receiver i ever owned was the Futaba 2.4 faast seven channel. I have 12 of them and they have never let me down. Im flying since May 1986 and all ive ever used up until the present is Fubaba.