Blade 400 Tail Set up - Help Please
07-21-2008, 01:52 AM
#1
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Blade 400 Tail Set up - Help Please
OK, I sat down on the weekend and set up the head on my Blade 400. Leveled the swash plate at zero and at both full positive and negative pitch.
The tail set up however is where I ran into a problem.
Heres what I did.
-TX Settings: Gyro > Set 0 to 66% and set 1 to 47.5%
(Thats about right yes? 0 for HH and 1 for Rate?)
-Made sure theres no trim / sub trim on the rudder.
-Set the Gyro in Rate mode (switch in position 1)
-Set the servo horn up at 90* (Straight up)
-Centred the tail slider by adjusting the ball link on the tail control rod.
Now heres where I ran into a problem.
-With the travel adjustment for rudder at the factory set 90% and the gyro in rate mode (thats if I have set it up correct) The tail centres pefectly and when I put in full left/right rudder the tail slider moves from one side to the other and stops just before it reaches the sides. (full movement with no binding / hitting the sides)
Perfect I thought, that all seems right (rembering this is my first real heli and I havent even spooled it up yet...)
BUT when I switch the gyro into HH mode and input rudder movement left and right the servo travel limits seem to go through the roof.
I can only move the stick about 75% left and right, any more and the tail slider reaches its physical end point and the servo starts binding.
I haven't been able to adjust the travele limit (end point adjustment) of the rudder servo while in HH mode and adjusting them in rate mode dosent seem to effect it while in HH mode (dosn't really help in rate mode either).
Not having any experience with a Gyro Set up or a heli in general i've come here for help.
Is what I have described normal? Or, How can I fix it?
The tail set up however is where I ran into a problem.
Heres what I did.
-TX Settings: Gyro > Set 0 to 66% and set 1 to 47.5%
(Thats about right yes? 0 for HH and 1 for Rate?)
-Made sure theres no trim / sub trim on the rudder.
-Set the Gyro in Rate mode (switch in position 1)
-Set the servo horn up at 90* (Straight up)
-Centred the tail slider by adjusting the ball link on the tail control rod.
Now heres where I ran into a problem.
-With the travel adjustment for rudder at the factory set 90% and the gyro in rate mode (thats if I have set it up correct) The tail centres pefectly and when I put in full left/right rudder the tail slider moves from one side to the other and stops just before it reaches the sides. (full movement with no binding / hitting the sides)
Perfect I thought, that all seems right (rembering this is my first real heli and I havent even spooled it up yet...)
BUT when I switch the gyro into HH mode and input rudder movement left and right the servo travel limits seem to go through the roof.
I can only move the stick about 75% left and right, any more and the tail slider reaches its physical end point and the servo starts binding.
I haven't been able to adjust the travele limit (end point adjustment) of the rudder servo while in HH mode and adjusting them in rate mode dosent seem to effect it while in HH mode (dosn't really help in rate mode either).
Not having any experience with a Gyro Set up or a heli in general i've come here for help.
Is what I have described normal? Or, How can I fix it?
07-21-2008, 02:34 AM
#2
Grandpa, Golfer, Pilot
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,404
Actually, you did just fine.
When the gyro gain is set BELOW 50 % you in Rate mode.
When you are ABOVE 50 % then you are in HH.
You need to realize that when in HH mode, the gyro is controlling the tail rotor---not you.
When you spool up and are in a hover, the gyro will give left or right as needed to keep the tail pointing pretty much in the same direction. When you input left or right rudder and you are in HH mode, you are just adjusting the rate at which the heli will rotate (called the piro rate) but the gyro is still in control so you just sort of override it a bit.
When the heli is not flying, it's normal to see the servo moving around and it will do so if you move the tail of the heli left or right just holding the heli in your hands, you'll see the gyro and servo trying to correct for this movement. Again......perfectly normal.
You will end up adjusting the HH rate to get the best hold and you will know you are TOO HIGH a setting if the tail "wags".....moves back and forth and back and forth. When this happens, then go into the transmitter and set the gain back lower by 1 or 2 % until the wag quits. If you have it set at 66 % then you are probably just fine to start with.
If you haven't looked at the "Radd method" for learning to fly, you should. It's a good, logical, and SLOW approach to the learning. Way too many people just slap a battery in it and think they can go out and fly it and they crash after about 10 or 20 seconds.
Flying a helicopter is unlike anything you have probably ever done. You are doing 3 or 4 things at once and things happen really fast if you're not ready for them.
Here is a link to the Radd School of Rotory Flight. Take a look and I think if you follow his suggestions, you will be hovering in no time and eventually flying, too. Good Luck!!!
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html
When the gyro gain is set BELOW 50 % you in Rate mode.
When you are ABOVE 50 % then you are in HH.
You need to realize that when in HH mode, the gyro is controlling the tail rotor---not you.
When you spool up and are in a hover, the gyro will give left or right as needed to keep the tail pointing pretty much in the same direction. When you input left or right rudder and you are in HH mode, you are just adjusting the rate at which the heli will rotate (called the piro rate) but the gyro is still in control so you just sort of override it a bit.
When the heli is not flying, it's normal to see the servo moving around and it will do so if you move the tail of the heli left or right just holding the heli in your hands, you'll see the gyro and servo trying to correct for this movement. Again......perfectly normal.
You will end up adjusting the HH rate to get the best hold and you will know you are TOO HIGH a setting if the tail "wags".....moves back and forth and back and forth. When this happens, then go into the transmitter and set the gain back lower by 1 or 2 % until the wag quits. If you have it set at 66 % then you are probably just fine to start with.
If you haven't looked at the "Radd method" for learning to fly, you should. It's a good, logical, and SLOW approach to the learning. Way too many people just slap a battery in it and think they can go out and fly it and they crash after about 10 or 20 seconds.
Flying a helicopter is unlike anything you have probably ever done. You are doing 3 or 4 things at once and things happen really fast if you're not ready for them.
Here is a link to the Radd School of Rotory Flight. Take a look and I think if you follow his suggestions, you will be hovering in no time and eventually flying, too. Good Luck!!!
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html
07-21-2008, 03:10 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 108
Ah Thank you very much!
Yep I have RADD School of Flight printed up and ready to go.
Good to know everything is ok.
My only concern now is that when in HH Mode and I input ruddder stick left or right (over about 60-70% left or right) the tail slider will hit the edge and bind the servo.
-The slider reaches its end point but the servo trys to move it even further. (This dosnet happen in rate mode, and Is only during a bench test)
A little hard to explain I know, but im sure you will understand (hope you do anyhow!)
Is that normal to happen during a bench test and in-flight it will be ok?
EDIT: also what pitch should the tail blades be at with the slider centred?
Yep I have RADD School of Flight printed up and ready to go.
Good to know everything is ok.
My only concern now is that when in HH Mode and I input ruddder stick left or right (over about 60-70% left or right) the tail slider will hit the edge and bind the servo.
-The slider reaches its end point but the servo trys to move it even further. (This dosnet happen in rate mode, and Is only during a bench test)
A little hard to explain I know, but im sure you will understand (hope you do anyhow!)
Is that normal to happen during a bench test and in-flight it will be ok?
EDIT: also what pitch should the tail blades be at with the slider centred?
07-21-2008, 06:23 AM
#4
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 108
This is all completely normal, while the heli is on the bench a HH gyro when given even the slightest rudder will go all the way to max throw. Why? because when you give it rudder it expects the heli to actually turn, while its on the bench it will never turn so therefore the gyro assumes the heli isn't moving and gives even more trying to force it to move. TOTALLY NORMAL. In rate mode the tail will center itself with the rudder stick.
Looks like every thing I did was correct
Now I just have to finish setting up the head (only got up to setting up the swash plate, still have everything above it to go) and ballancing the blades.
"Google is your friend!"
If anyone reads this and knows what pitch the tail blades need to be when the slider is centered i'd like to know.
07-21-2008, 07:04 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by Lymph
If anyone reads this and knows what pitch the tail blades need to be when the slider is centered i'd like to know.
(I take it you can't actually adjust the tail blade pitch?)
And you need to set up rate mode correctly and adjust the control rod linkage to the rudder so it dosent drift in a hover then its set up correctly for HH mode as well.
Can sombody confirm my last post is correct? I just can't see why even in HH mode that the max travel of the servo is more then that of rate mode.
Anybody care to clarify?
07-21-2008, 07:52 AM
#6
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07-21-2008, 08:01 AM
#7
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Rudder ATV (aka End Point, Travel Adjust) values?
=======================================
On a non-heading hold gyro this function in your radio is used to set how far the rudder linkage will travel.
On heading hold gyros this function works completely different. It is used to set the maximum rotation rate. So what do you do about limiting the travel so as not to allow the servo to bind? Some gyros have a limit adjustment on them that you use to set this. The ones that do not require you to move the ball on the servo arm further or closer to the center of the arm to limit the travel.
=======================================
On a non-heading hold gyro this function in your radio is used to set how far the rudder linkage will travel.
On heading hold gyros this function works completely different. It is used to set the maximum rotation rate. So what do you do about limiting the travel so as not to allow the servo to bind? Some gyros have a limit adjustment on them that you use to set this. The ones that do not require you to move the ball on the servo arm further or closer to the center of the arm to limit the travel.
07-21-2008, 08:07 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by Slyster
Thanks for that, I did check it but still cant find any information regarding the tail servo having more travel in HH mode then rate mode.
Just can't understand how it can have the right ammount of travel in rate mode and not in HH mode??
07-22-2008, 12:45 AM
#9
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Ok, So I found out you can't set end points in HH mode with the stock gyro.
So I put the ball in the 2nd hole from centre on the tail servo horn and the travel was within 1mm of its limits on the tail slider, not perfect but a lot better then binding the servo.
Now in rate mode the travel is a lot less, unless I put the travel adjustment up to about 125% left and right.
I need to know if thats ok. I think it will be since it should only effect the piro speed in rate mode which I won't be flying in.
Or should I simply set it back to 90% as per factory settings and set the tail up so it hovers in rate mode with no drifting and no trim which then sets it up ready to fly in HH mode. Which is what I've read is the correct way to go about it.
Mat.
So I put the ball in the 2nd hole from centre on the tail servo horn and the travel was within 1mm of its limits on the tail slider, not perfect but a lot better then binding the servo.
Now in rate mode the travel is a lot less, unless I put the travel adjustment up to about 125% left and right.
I need to know if thats ok. I think it will be since it should only effect the piro speed in rate mode which I won't be flying in.
Or should I simply set it back to 90% as per factory settings and set the tail up so it hovers in rate mode with no drifting and no trim which then sets it up ready to fly in HH mode. Which is what I've read is the correct way to go about it.
Mat.
07-22-2008, 01:00 AM
#10
Grandpa, Golfer, Pilot
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,404
QUOTE "Or should I simply set it back to 90% as per factory settings and set the tail up so it hovers in rate mode with no drifting and no trim which then sets it up ready to fly in HH mode. Which is what I've read is the correct way to go about it."
Yes...this is what you want to do.
Yes...this is what you want to do.
07-22-2008, 01:26 AM
#11
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Thanks.
Now I know what needs to be done.
-Set gyro in rate mode
-spool up and take note of which way the tail is trying to spin.
-adjust control rod linkage to adjust tail (or adjust pitch on tail blades if at all possible?)
-when tail no longer drifts in rate mode then the tail is set up correctly for HH mode flying.
-FLY!
Now I know what needs to be done.
-Set gyro in rate mode
-spool up and take note of which way the tail is trying to spin.
-adjust control rod linkage to adjust tail (or adjust pitch on tail blades if at all possible?)
-when tail no longer drifts in rate mode then the tail is set up correctly for HH mode flying.
-FLY!
07-07-2010, 05:21 PM
#12
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 14
bout time
I've looked all over for this exact explanation. PERFECTO.
THIS content should end up in the Blade400 bible...
The manual says effectively- zero- about the tail, HH, Rate, and basic tail servo setup. There are basic settings for the swashplate in the manual and plenty online/youtube/ on how to center the swashplate and each of those servos. My Bldae 400 had what I would describe as a gentle but unintended landing on my first day out.
My time on the sim paid off, but I still got nervous and just overcorrected a bit. No visible damage, but 3 servos stripped, bent main and feathering shafts + screws! 
I also baked one servo completely!
Replaced with nylon gear sets ( HS 65MGs on order )
But the rudder spins wildly out of control when I near liftoff. Online research suggests any number of things: reverse(checked), belt tightening, bent tail parts. The thing is tho, I couldn't find a basic setup when the factory tail servo adjustemts are gone.
Here is that info! THANKS!
THIS content should end up in the Blade400 bible...
The manual says effectively- zero- about the tail, HH, Rate, and basic tail servo setup. There are basic settings for the swashplate in the manual and plenty online/youtube/ on how to center the swashplate and each of those servos. My Bldae 400 had what I would describe as a gentle but unintended landing on my first day out.
My time on the sim paid off, but I still got nervous and just overcorrected a bit. No visible damage, but 3 servos stripped, bent main and feathering shafts + screws! I also baked one servo completely! Replaced with nylon gear sets ( HS 65MGs on order )
But the rudder spins wildly out of control when I near liftoff. Online research suggests any number of things: reverse(checked), belt tightening, bent tail parts. The thing is tho, I couldn't find a basic setup when the factory tail servo adjustemts are gone.
Here is that info! THANKS!
