Up&Away

The problem with the little Gunther prop is that it flexes quite a bit. As a newbie, that is nice since the prop doesn't break easily on sub zero altitude approaches. Have you tried a CAM 5x5?

guapoman2000

Guys!!

I got tired of replacing the Brushed 480 (long can) motors and one day came in my local hobby shop to find one Himax 2825-2300 and noticed the HIMAX label sort of pulled away at the corners and I told the Manager as he was attending me at the motor case that it must be one that was returned for repairs and they did not provide this motor a new sticker so, he offered to sell it to me for a cool $20.US below retail $49.99 instead of $69.99!!!

What did you think happened?

I installed this motor about two weeks ago and it's maiden flight with my ZAGI was at an Electric Fun Fly with 18 MPH winds and gusting to 20 MPH, conservatively speaking!! I tossed it up with a Castle Creations PHX-25 ESC, and swinging the APC "E" 6 X 4 propeller and using Pro-Lite Thunder Power 2100mAH, 3S1P, Li-POLY.

The measured FULL WIDE OPEN Throttle was 17 AMPs much lower than my Combat XE-2 Wing using the MEGA 16/15/4-turn with same propeller compared to 21 AMPs with the MEGA!!

Of course the top end speed is not there, however, it was fast enough for those at the club to take notice!!

The MEGA 16/15/4-turn spins at 17,300 RPMs with the same setup and demanding 21 AMPs and I suspect that the Himax 2825-2300 is in the area of 15,000 RPMs with 17 AMPs.

It flys just great and no CG issues as I slide my 3S1P, 2100mAH, Pro-Lites up front and it off-sets the weight of the larger and longer brushless Himax.

Carlos

guapoman2000

a last minute repair on one of the servos for my ZAGI wing....the servo arm was free wheeling! At the local Hobby Shop, took advantage to get a servo gear replacement of the Hitec HS-81.

The manner in which these servos are inserted into the wing allowed me to aviod major tape removal and top canopy removal! Pretty neat design!
Here's the record speedy repair before going to the RC Club!

catfish

My mini XE .........check the video out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-3KFSXq7w

Wid

I went to the expense of a 300DF brushless (~$35) and lipos because the motor only weighs 1 oz, draws less current than a 400 brushed so I can use lighter batteries and both my Zagi 400 and my Zagi 60 fly faster and longer and have much improved sink rate. A 15 percent reduction in weight is like a 15 percent increase in power without any increase in amp draw. The lower amp draw means you can use lighter, cheaper batteries, which offsets the cost of the little outrunner. JustGoFly.com has a lot of good info on these and other motors and Prop sizes, amps, etc. Wid >Can't understand why so many go to the expense of brushless on these fine >flying models?

guapoman2000

Wid,

My ZAGI 48 incher (Yellow Wing per the pic's) have recently gone brushless. I installed the Himax HC2815-2800 and swinging the APC "E" 6 X 4 propeller and it zooms out of sight.

The level speed is pretty good, however, not like my other wing (Combat XE-2) powered with the Mega 16/15/4-turn swinging the identical propeller.

The Himax on my ZAGI draws 17 AMPs at wide open throttle and delivers 15,400 RPMs at the propeller......in comparision with the Mega on my Combat wing....21 AMPs at 17,300 RPMs.

I do realize that the Himax motor is heavier than the Mega or your suggestion of the 300DF motor but, let me tell you I have not noticed any sink rate deminish without power....this ZAGI is very well designed even with the extra almost 2oz. weight.

Carlos

guapoman2000

Got to the Club at 5:35pm and flew my ZAGI Wing with the Brushless Himax 2825-2300 and the APC "E" 6 X 4 propeller flew it for 8 minutes and 30 seconds of delightful playing in that very violent wind

One of my family members told me later that when they looked on me as I was facing the wind, my face was full of waves like in one of those wind tunnels It seemed like the winds got worse by sundown and it really felt like it was much higher than 20 MPH winds

It was the most hair raising experience ever.....that ZAGI flew just great.
The hand catch was pretty scary but, I managed to catch it right before the wind would have blown it away

Just a super sundown experience!

Twizter68

Nylon gears in a wing??? Dude, you're a brave man!

Metal gears only for me....no strippy, strippy during hard cranks and banks......

guapoman2000

Nylon using HS-81's are very effective as this wing is flown very conservatively and it originally was flown with the ZAGI 400 brushed motor and yes, it has lots of elevon travel but, the only times these nylon gears strip is when I do land badly.

Unlike my Combat XE-2 Wing which has the HS-85MG's this "Lighter" ZAGI now with a brushless does not fly at those speeds like my Combat and it does not engage into mid-air combat.

Thanks for your tip and concern, however.

Carlos

guapoman2000

Just wonderful flying with my ZAGI tonight (Sunset)!

markm75

Curious where you found the Himax motor at.. Is this an outrunner? If so.. did you make any mods to the motor mount to prevent the case from rubbing etc? (I'm a newbie at the motor upgrade thing, specially brushless)...

Whats its rated KV?

Cheers

guapoman2000

The Himax HA2825-2300 is an Inrunner Brushless motor such that the first number is 28mm diameter, second number is 25mm length and the last four digits mean it is direct drive and has a Kv of 2300 Rpm/Volt.

More details at:
http://www.maxxprod.com/pdf/HA2825-xx00.pdf

I bought it from my local Hobby Store for a great deal at $50 US because I noticed that it's label was sort of peeled and I brought it to the Manager's attention and he indicated that it was one of the motors they sent out for repairs so, he reduced it on the spot from full retail at $69.99

The motor has performed flawlessly....

markm75

Cool thanks for the details.. I'll have to check around locally to see if they have one. What was the ESC you used with this one?

I guess if not locally I should try to match sizes and go with inrunner to be able to just plop in a brushless and go fly (I'm not sure how an outrunner would work fitting)

What type of battery charger/balancer do you use..

Any good sites for Lipos for cheap? What would you say your avg flight time is...

Cheapest i've found thus far is this one:
http://www.xushobby.com/servlet/Categories?category=Li-poly+Battery%3ADN+Power+15C+Continuous $79 for two[/font]

or for a 3100mah pack they want over $80 for one at the same site (i'm thinking I may go for 3100mah as, I also will have a Twinstar II to use it on).. I've read that alot are getting about 12 mins of flight time on a twinstar II and only 2100mah).. $80 for one battery though, ouch
Cheers

markm75

Curious if you had to make any mods to the canopy to take the brushless 300DF motor? Are you using an 18amp ESC with that.. how does it compare power wise, to the standard motor. What battery do you recommend with this combo (LIPO), how many mins of flight do you get out of it .

Cheers

Major Danger

guapoman2000 (Carlos) Nice to see al the things your doing and the joy your having flying your Zagi. Nice to see someone else in Florida (near me) is flying a Zagi. I'm almost done with my first build with maiden flight sometime tomorrow (Wind willing). I want a nice calm morning for my first few tosses and Flights. Your notes serve as encouragement for me as this is also my first wing and I'm a bit of a nervous flyer sometimes.

Baby steps really. I don't expect to get out there and set a speed record of any sorts. The new Zagi designs have improved a bit from what I've read, incorporating alot of ideas and mod's made from people flying your model type design.

So if I may from time to time throw a question or two or three your way I'd certainly appreciate any spare time you may have to advise.

Ben,
Palm Bay, FL

Oh yeah......Tomorrow is National Procrastination Day (NPD) or Monday...... ..... or Wednesday.................. whenever.

guapoman2000

Markm,

I use the Castle Creations PHX-25 Brushless ESC.

I would not use anything except Thunder Power or Poly Quest Li-POLYs....just my personal perference and experience of several brand of batteries and the Thunder Power stands up to the rigors of high AMP draw and heat onboard these wings.

The best prices presently for Poly Quest is at:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/polyquest.htm
3-cell, 1800mAH, Poly Quest Li-POLY for $54.US

guapoman2000

Ben,

Hope your maiden went okay.......if you have any questions then, feel free and post.

guapoman2000

I have been flying the TAR OUT of this ZAGGI wing with the Himax 2825-2300 brushless and swinging the APC "E" 6X4 propeller.

Now, I have to purchase new Li-POLYs as my Thunder Power Pro-Lites are just too tired. I am looking at those POLY QUEST "TWENTY" 1800mAH, 3-Cell, Li-POLYs for $54./each!!!

Up&Away

I've gone for United Hobbies' hexTronik 3S 20-30C 2250 packs. Smmmoking!

guapoman2000

I would not deal with United Hobbies as I had an experience that was not very good....Motors perhaps but, nothing else.

Arkitexas

Guapoman:

I fly an XS with a Mega 16/15/4, CC PHX 25 and a pair of Poly R/C 3S 1500 20C Lipos. I wire the batteries in parallel. The two batteries weigh just slightly less than the Zagi NiMh so I didn't have to add any weight to maintain my CG. With only one battery I couldn't set it forward enough to balance and stay inside the original battery tray. Also, these batteries fit perfectly while leaving enough room for the air to flow over them and the ESC/radio. I get 12 to 15 minutes of good flying (6 to 7 minutes of WOT). The batteries are $50.30 each.

Batteries: http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...wlipos&man=PRC

Rick

Major Danger

Wow, Carlos I thought you done abandoned this thread.

My Maiden flight actually sucked rocks. I fried the first stock motor. I had an extra. Slapped it in with the stock 8 cell Nicad. That sucked rocks too. LOL. The battery's were too heavy (this was my first RC purchase ever) and the motor, well I'm not going there. I'm sure you're well aware of the things I would say about the stock set up. So anyway I reinvested in a mega 16/15/4 and some lipo's. Took up on the re-maiden and she flew just fine in the wind (I couldn't wait) but when I brought her back down after 5 min (the wind was testing my skills to the envelope too much) and I could swear I her a weird sound as she came by me.

Now keep in mind I'm legally deaf. I'm completely deaf now in my left ear and the right ear I barely hear. But I could swear I hear a grinding noise. I hand turned it and I could definately feel it grinding like a pepper mill would feel. I know it's tight out of the box, this was just like the pepper mill description. I sent an email to megamotorsusa and they said send it back and we'll replace it. I expected a 2 week turn around time on that statement alone. Instead what happened was the lil pricks sent it back to the Czech Republic to get fixed. That was 8 weeks ago. I sent em another email last week and they said in reply, it was due in last week. So if it doesn't show up up this week I'm gonna send Hillary Clinton over there to strip dance for em.

Thats how the maiden went. I haven't flown it since. But I have been flying something in the mean time that I think you may or may not enjoy when your not at the Club flying. A Superfly. 50mph with the stock setup just add a 3S lipo and your zipping around. They are a hoot. Perfect for flying whenever you want to type of thing. Even guys who fly wings at 120mph use the superfly more than their wings for obvious reasons. It will do anything you ask of it basically.

Check it out. They have some pretty good flight movies at the website too. www.superflyrc.com and there's also a good and popular thread here on wattflyer if your interested too.

Anyway, I know this is long. So I'll bow out now. I'll let ya know when the mega gets here. I think you're flyin on the north end of Brevard county are you not? Perhapes sometime after I get the Zagi going we can meet up and you can give me a few pointers. The Zagi intimidates me a bit. Albeit, thats due to not being able to fly it for 3 months and never being able to get zen like with the plane.

Stay dry,
Ben

P.S. Below are some pic's of how she turned out anyway. My Zagi-Bee1
Not to bad for my first build.

guapoman2000

Rick,

Thanks so much for that tip and web link!

I have experiemented with 1500mAH 3-cells Li-POLY in parallel...perhaps not as light as yours but, the wing did fly well, however, a little heavier than with my usual TP-Pro-Lite 2100mAH, 15C Discharge, Li-POLYs.

Also, in the demanding nature of AMP draw from these power systems...even if you parallel the actual yeild capacity of the smaller capacity cells would still come short in flight time due to their Lower Under Load Voltage because of the demanding AMP draw from the power system.

Thanks again,
Carlos

guapoman2000

Ben,

That was a very funny write-up and great looking ZAGI!

Sure, I fly at the Moon Port Modelers RC CLub within or adjacent to Windover Farms Community in Titusville, Florida.....take I-95 North and exit at SR-50 where Super Wal-Mart and the new Target, Home Depot is....

As soon as you exit I-95 ... turn right onto SR-50 (East Bound) and turn RIGHT between Circle K and Texaco Gas station and I believe that Windover Way and travel North bound along this road and 1/10th of a mile you will see a white rocky gravel driveway on the right....that's where Moon Port Modelers is located.

You are welcomed anytime!

Take care!
Carlos

guapoman2000

My Zagi is still flying and now with the new Thunder Power Extreme V-2's....zoom zoom!