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Model Design, Aerodynamic and Airfoil Links

Old 08-21-2009, 12:01 PM
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Sky Sharkster
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Default Model Design, Aerodynamic and Airfoil Links

Hi Everyone,
I am starting a list of model aerodynamic links, including airfoils. If you have any good links, please post them here and I'll add them to the list. In the meantime I'll keep looking!
Ron

Online Resources
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/ (Beginners guide to R/C designing, building and flying. Includes basic aerodynamics)
http://www.gylesaero.com/aeronerds/index.shtml (Programs for design of aircraft. Free trial)
http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ (Low-speed airfoil tests)
http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ulas/index.htm
(Formulas for model aircraft design. Aspect Ratio, Wing loading, Dihedral, Wing Area, Mean Aerodynamic Chord)
http://www.av8n.com/how/ (Full-Scale Aerodynamics)
http://www.arvelgentry.com/origins_of_lift.htm (Theory of Lift Generation) Thanks, Steve!
http://www.cncplusplus.com/AeroPlot/Aero%20Plot.htm (Program for plotting airfoils in AutoCad. Free.) Thanks, Zedenek!
http://www.cncplusplus.com/ (Companion to Aeroplot, CNC)
http://www.compufoil.com/index.shtml (Airfoil Plotting Program)
http://www.desktopaero.com/appliedae...e/welcome.html (Full-Scale Aerodynamics)
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/d...tail_coef.html (Tail Volume Coefficient)
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/wing/airfoil.html (Airfoil lifting force)
http://www.ef-uk.net/data/wcl.htm (Wing Cube Loading Calc) Thanks, Larry!
http://www.flyrc.com/calculator.shtml (Wing loading calculator) Thanks, dk aero!
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/short.html (NASA's Beginners Guide to Aerodynamics) Thanks, Steve!
http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/index.htm (Aerodynamics for model aircraft, including airfoils. Large section on flying wings)
http://www.profili2.com/eng/default.htm (Airfoil plotting program)
http://regenpress.com/ (Wings and Lift Generation) Thanks, Steve!
http://www.rexresearch.com/klinfogl/klinfogl.htm#ultim (Kline/Folleman KF Airfoil)
http://sky.prohosting.com/air2/index2.htm (Model aerodynamics explained, in simple terms)
http://tracfoil.free.fr/airfoils/indexE.html (Sailplane airfoils, Free)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitu...atic_stability (Longitudinal Static Stability)
http://worldofkrauss.com/ (AID, Airfoil Investigation Database, Free) Thanks, DKNgyuen!

Books
http://www.amazon.com/Model-Aircraft.../dp/1854861905 (Martin Simons; Model Aircraft Aerodynamics)
http://www.amazon.com/Basics-Model-A.../dp/0911295402 (Andy Lennon; Basics of R/C Model Aircraft Design)
http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Wing-Se...ref=pd_sim_b_2 (Ira H. Abbott + A.E. von Doenhoff; Theory of Wing Sections)
http://www.amazon.com/RCadvisors-Mod...ref=pd_sim_b_2 (Carlos Reyes; RCadvisor's Model Airplane Design Made Easy)
Note; This link contains lift information which is disputed and many believe to be inaccurate. For a further description, go here;
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/bernnew.html
http://regenpress.com/
And here;
http://www.aviation-history.com/theory/lift.htm
Also see post # 7.

Last edited by Sky Sharkster; 09-21-2009 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:17 PM
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JetPlaneFlyer
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Nice links

Here's another on how wings *really* generate lift: http://regenpress.com/

And NASA's 'Beginner's Guide to Aerodynamics': http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/short.html

Steve
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:36 PM
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Sky Sharkster
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Default Good Links!

Those are a couple of good ones, Thanks, Steve.
I've added them to the list.
Ron
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Old 08-22-2009, 02:44 AM
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dk_aero
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Default Wing Cube Loading Calculator

http://www.flyrc.com/calculator.shtml
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Old 08-22-2009, 03:01 AM
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Default New Link

Thanks, Dk, that's a good wing loading calc. I've added it to the list.
Ron
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Old 08-22-2009, 07:23 AM
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Larry3215
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Originally Posted by dk_aero View Post
The Flyrc page doesnt work for me. There is no place to enter wing span and it wont do the simple wing loading calc either. The downloadable excell sheet works fine though.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:12 PM
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JetPlaneFlyer
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As these are supposed top be links on aerodynamics then I'd have to question the inclusion of: http://www.amazon.com/RCadvisors-Mod...ref=pd_sim_b_2 (Carlos Reyes; RCadvisor's Model Airplane Design Made Easy)

This book may be a good guide practical on how to design a model plane but much of the aerodynamic theory contained in it is seriously flawed.. For instance it gives the old 'air must travel a longer distance over the top of a wing there fore it must move faster' explanation of lift, which is incorrect. There are other fundamental errors too.Steve
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:42 PM
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Larry3215
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Here is a wing loading/Cube wing loading calculator that is working correctly.

http://www.ef-uk.net/data/wcl.htm
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:52 PM
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Default Bad Info?

Hello Steve,
Thank you for your interest in the links. They are mainly meant as a resource for (future) model designers, much the same as the result one would obtain by Googling "Model Aircraft Design" or "Aerodynamic Of Model Design" etc. It was not meant as a critique' of each source.
But you are correct that the advancements in understanding wing lift generation have put older theories under attack, particularly in the last 20 years.
If you are referring to the Bernoulli vs Newton theories, I've included a caveat beneath the Reyes book link to include this. I have also entered a link to include a description of the Coanda Effect explanation.
Thanks again for your interest, please feel free to post any links that are more accurate or current.
Ron
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:04 PM
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Default Cubic Calc?

Thanks, Larry, I've added it to the list.
Ron
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Old 09-20-2009, 08:15 PM
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JetPlaneFlyer
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Here is and excellent and authoritative page on the circulation explanation of lift: http://www.arvelgentry.com/origins_of_lift.htm
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Old 09-21-2009, 02:02 AM
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Default New Link

Hi Steve,
Thank you for the link, I've added it to the list.
Ron
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Old 11-05-2009, 03:28 AM
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Default AeroPlot ver 3.0

Hi all,
thanks for inlcuding AeroPlot in the list (thanks Ron).
Now you can download a new 3.0 version - you can open any number of the airfiols into the display, set different colors so that you can compare them.
Print, scale and offset works on the currently selected section (airfoil).
Enjoy,
Zdenek
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:24 AM
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Huffy01
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Sorry Sky Sharkster, I haven't got a link to submit, I have a question about one of the book links.
I'm a proud owner of Basic design of Model Aircraft by Andy Lennon. Its a great book and has me understanding more about the subject.
But opinions being opinions I wonder "how rock solid " they are to others.
In another thread I found out about the R/C Advisor "Model Airplane Design Made Easy" book. The book is out of my reach because of ways of payment but I am interested in it.
My question is " What is the diputed information in this book".
I'm not to worried about "the real way a wing get's lift". It's seems too be a lot of finger pointing.
There are other areas of aerodynamics that are more important?!!!!
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:06 PM
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JetPlaneFlyer
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Huffy,
'Model Airplane design made easy' may be a good book on the practical issues of model design. I can’t say for sure because I've only read the few pages available in the Amazon book preview tool.
Those first few pages do contain a few errors/misleading statements regarding the theory of lift, among other things. What put me off most was the statement that lift was due to air having to 'travel a further distance over the curved top surface of a wing'. Picking on this may seem to some like nit picking or 'finger pointing' but if you accept this explanation of lift as written then you must also accept that flat plate and symmetrical wings won’t fly and that no plane can fly inverted .... So while it may seem like a purely theoretical point it does have fundamental practical implications.
There are other statements made that lead me to believe that the author did not perhaps fully understand what he was writing but instead was paraphrasing what he had read elsewhere..

The rest of the book covering more practical issues could be top notch, i dont know. What I would advise is that anyone looking for a reference book on model aerodynamics look elsewhere. Martin Simons' 'Model Aircraft Aerodynamics' is hard to beat on that count and not too full of technical gobbledygook.

Happy to debate these issues further but perhaps take it to another thread?

Steve
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Old 11-11-2009, 01:06 PM
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Sky Sharkster
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Default Why Does It Fly?

Hello Huffy,
You are correct that there are areas of aerodynamics that are disputed and more modern theories seem to put older ideas into question.
The link that JetPlaneFlyer supplied
http://www.arvelgentry.com/origins_of_lift.htm
Shows, with text and diagrams, the now commonly-accepted theory of lift circulation and generation. It is quite different from the theories espoused by older books.
But, unless you are designing entire airfoils from scratch and have a wind tunnel handy, won't change the way most of us design, build and fly.
We may just understand "why" in a newer or better way.
If you use proven airfoils and stick to the basic design parameters provided by the links listed, you can design a model that will fly, and fly well. I believe that understanding moments, ratios, balance, areas and trim are as important as they ever were.
At least it's worked that way for me!
Ron
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:20 PM
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Huffy01
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About 10 years ago I did 5 hours of my ultralight pilots license. It has the theories of lift in it. It does mention about the Bernoulli and Newton theories but only loosely.
One mentions about Bernoulli and venturi, Newtons opposite and equal theories, etc.
As it's government licensing I believe it more.
This isn't what I meant in my last post.
The thing is the book is about $20USD then the postage, then the international money order which is $15AUD so it would be expensive too buy.
If the book isn't creditable I would be throwing away money.
My concerns are more like aspect ratio, wing tip and wing planform, fuselage proportions, vertical and horizontal stabilizers, design and construction.
Performance is a big goal and so is airfoil selection.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:37 PM
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The book i mentioned previously 'Model Aircraft Aerodynamics' by Martin Simons is an excellent and authoratative reference.
As the title suggests it does only cover aerodynamics, so if you are looking for simple rules of thumb for model design and/or construction techniques than best look elswere.
The Andy Lennon books have an excellent reputation though I've not read them.

Steve
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:28 PM
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Huffy01
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Andy Lennon's book is not totally up to date ,it doesn't cover electrics and mention mirco/mini servo's.
Sometime in the authors life he was designing full size aircraft and that knowledge goes into his models.
He uses front and rear spars so there are 2 mounting points in the wing saddle.
The servos are mounted in the fuselage and steel cables used to control the A/F/R/E surfaces.
He only built models with +60 inch wingspan made almost completely of balsa wood, the only other wood he mentions is plywood for the engine mount.
The aerodynamic formulas and algebra are really well explained.
Models covered slow/stol, aerobatic, tailless, seaplane and a little about glider/sailplane.
I found it for $16.99 and $19.99 US.
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default Balance Point Determination

Hi Sky Sharkster!

Is there a "straight-forward" way to calculate a "starting" balance-point for the model wing/stabilizer configuration shown in the attached diagram (all dimensions are inches)?
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:30 PM
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Hi
Many links for rc modeling
http://www.thirtythousandfeet.com/rc.htm
The main site for all aviation and one of my all time favs
http://www.thirtythousandfeet.com/home.htm
Take care
Hank
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