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Bird of Time Electric Conversion

Old 04-01-2012, 12:55 AM
  #101  
renindy
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Originally Posted by mred View Post
As for reversed rudder, that is why I always do a control check just before launch, to make sure that doesn't happen. Had it happen once and never again. If you didn't put spoilers on this time, it's not to late to do it and they are worth their weight in gold when you need them.

Ed
Ed, from what i hear, everyone that does spoilers likes 'em. This last time, I triple checked the control throws, balance, and......correct direction!
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:47 AM
  #102  
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Well sir I'll tell you. The first couple of gliders I built after coming back into the hobby didn't have spoilers on them and while you can land them without, it is so much easier with them that I wouldn't have a glider without them anymore. Sure you can fly without them and some people do, but why make it harder on yourself then necessary. Spoilers make landing so much easier and also allow you to come down fast out of a thermal that I don't see any reason why anyone would build a glider without them anymore. I know I never will again. I am building two now that do not have spoilers as built, but I sure am putting them in. Just not that hard to do and for the little extra building time, it is sure worth it.

I use direct drive and a magnet to hold them close, so you don't have to worry about linkage and they are simple to adjust. I made mine open 90 degrees and they make great air brakes also and since they are on a side slider, I can open them an amount I want. You only need about 3 bays long and about 1" to 1.5" wide and they will be plenty effective.

Ed
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:23 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by mred View Post

I use direct drive and a magnet to hold them close, so you don't have to worry about linkage and they are simple to adjust. I made mine open 90 degrees and they make great air brakes also and since they are on a side slider, I can open them an amount I want. You only need about 3 bays long and about 1" to 1.5" wide and they will be plenty effective.

Ed
I'd like to see design details if you have them.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:51 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by renindy View Post
I'd like to see design details if you have them.
Example shown in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs7pvqG-3A

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgs7pvqG-3A[/media]
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:36 PM
  #105  
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There just isn't much to putting spoilers in. The spoiler is taped open so you can see the servo, but I just use tape to hold them on so if you ever need to work on something, you can just take the tape off and work on it. The wire is just a 1" piece of paper clip glued on the spoiler and the magnet touches it when closed. That tiny servo has 22oz of torque, so there is plenty to open them. The servo arm is pushing directly on the spoiler, so there is no linkage to worry about and they open to 90 degrees so there is a nice airbrake action when they are fully open. You also need a frame work around the spoilers so you have something for the covering to attach to.

The hardest thing about installing spoilers is programing the transmitter. I put each on it's own channel so I can adjust them to work perfect and put them on a side slider so you can open them as much as you need. You could put them on a switch if you wanted to , but I just don't like a switch for spoilers. Cover the spoilers top and bottom so they don't warp and they should be good for a long time.

If you have any more questions, let me know and I will try to answer them.

Ed
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:41 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by mred View Post
There just isn't much to putting spoilers in. The spoiler is taped open so you can see the servo, but I just use tape to hold them on so if you ever need to work on something, you can just take the tape off and work on it. The wire is just a 1" piece of paper clip glued on the spoiler and the magnet touches it when closed. That tiny servo has 22oz of torque, so there is plenty to open them. The servo arm is pushing directly on the spoiler, so there is no linkage to worry about and they open to 90 degrees so there is a nice airbrake action when they are fully open. You also need a frame work around the spoilers so you have something for the covering to attach to.

The hardest thing about installing spoilers is programing the transmitter. I put each on it's own channel so I can adjust them to work perfect and put them on a side slider so you can open them as much as you need. You could put them on a switch if you wanted to , but I just don't like a switch for spoilers. Cover the spoilers top and bottom so they don't warp and they should be good for a long time.

If you have any more questions, let me know and I will try to answer them.

Ed
That is great information and a slick, straightforward design. Thanks again.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #107  
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I wish I could take credit for this design, but I can't. This has been done many times in the past and I just copied it. There doesn't seem to be a lot of people passing this on, so I thought I would try and pass it on to a few people so it doesn't get lost. As for the actual building, it is a little easier if you do this during the construction, but if you are buying an ARF or repairing one, you don't have much choice. Putting them on an ARF wing is a little harder, but not much. You just have to be careful around the covering while putting them on so you don't mess it up. If you have the room to put a hatch on the bottom of the wing then it makes working on them easier too. I didn't have room for a hatch on this wing as it is VERY thin, so I just glued the servo in place on an piece of 1/16" plywood. Use RTV so you can cut it out again later if the need ever comes up and you have to replace the servo.

One thing about adjusting the servos. I did mine outside of the wing, because the servo only needs to move about 80 degs, where normal movement is about 120 degs. I used the zero adjust and the limit adjust to give the travel I needed. Once you get a rough travel adjustment made you can install them and make final adjustments. The reason I do this is because the servo will try and travel to far the first time and may cause binding of the arm as it tries to move to it normal travel limit. This adjustment is the hardest part of putting the spoilers in and it is not really that hard to do. Good luck and enjoy.

Ed
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:04 PM
  #108  
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Default defusers

I also just put spoilers into my wings along the same lines as every body else and make a great addition to the plane. One of the best things i have done to date is add defusers to the tips of the wings and it has greatly helped the tip stall of the wing in a tight turn

Last edited by Desertdog; 11-29-2014 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:39 AM
  #109  
mred
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OK, I'll bite, what are defusers? Looks like a piece of tape on your wing tips, is that what you are calling a defuser. Just asking because I never heard of them before.

Ed
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #110  
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Medline nurses tape works well, a 3/16 strip wide and 4 high
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:42 PM
  #111  
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Is that like a terubulator and how do you determine where to put them? I noticed you put it on at an angle.

Ed
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:34 PM
  #112  
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Default defusers = turbulators ?

Originally Posted by windyhill View Post
....
One of the best things i have done to date is add defusers to the tips of the wings and it has greatly helped the tip stall of the wing in a tight turn
....
It looks like a turbulator.
But I wonder about the position.
As they should force the laminar flow to switch to turbulent flow to prevent flow separation, they are usually more up front.
Or you know exactly the position where to put it for a given speed or angle of attack.

But if it works.........one should not ask too many questions

Uli
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:32 PM
  #113  
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Default terubulator not defuser

Sorry for calling it a defuser, i got in a hurry and for a better word i could not think of the word terubulator. This fix does not cure all tip stall but it works extreemly well.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:26 AM
  #114  
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I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but as Uli says, they normally get put farther forward and parallel to the spar. I was just wondering about the position and why it is at an angle. You can't argue with success, but I would like to understand it a little more.

Ed
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:12 PM
  #115  
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Default battery up date and turbulator angle

Have a spare arf fusaloge and thought i would try to think about putting less weight in the nose, The fuse i am now flying works good and i have a thunder power 2700 with stick on wheel weights moved as far up frount as i can get them under the motor and then back. Works good and i slide the battery in flat and the back of it and it is 1/4 in from the back of the motor, The battery sits on a wood platform i extended from the origional wood platform with velcro on the batt and the platform. I had a fun jet i crashed and striped all the parts and used the battery floor plate hold down with a velcro strap and sawed out the plywood doubler and ground out the wood down to the fuse floor and ca' it in. The battery is a 3300 and weighs 2.4 ozs more than the 2700 but doe's not make a differande because you have to add more weight anyway but the batt is farther forward and will require less wheel weighs, plus the battery is held down by velcro under the batt and a strap. As far as the turbulators go look at the leading edge of the wing and you will see they are almost parell but look like they are at an angle, Maby 10 degrees.

Last edited by Desertdog; 11-29-2014 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:00 PM
  #116  
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Default Boomers and new bad perscription lenses

Just after i posted the last article i wen't out to fly and i just got a new perscription from my optometrest and i told him the distance was way out of focus and he told me it would take a while to refocus from my old lenses,Sooooo Went out on my back pasture and launched, went up around 1000 ft and stoped the motor and wow it started up like no time before started circleing in a wide arc and it just kept going up and up. I started to get worried about getting to far up and away and all of a sudden i lost it, i could not see it for about 15 seconds and paniced. clicked on the spoilers and waited, from my side view saw a hawk and thought that was it but then from the other side here it came right back to me and in focus and i came down in the field for a landing. (PHEW) These three photos are after it came down in sight.
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Last edited by Desertdog; 05-15-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:28 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by windyhill View Post
Just after i posted the last article i wen't out to fly and i just got a new perscription from my optometrest and i told him the distance was way out of focus and he told me it would take a while to refocus from my old lenses,Sooooo Went out on my back pasture and launched, went up around 1000 ft and stoped the motor and wow it started up like no time before started circleing in a wide arc and it just kept going up and up. I started to get worried about getting to far up and away and all of a sudden i lost it, i could not see it for about 15 seconds and paniced. clicked on the spoilers and waited, from my side view saw a hawk and thought that was it but then from the other side here it came right back to me and in focus and i came down in the field for a landing. (PHEW) These three photos are after it came down in sight.
Wow
I've done that many years ago with a 10 foot sailplane. Took my eyes off of it after coming off of tow, and could not find it.

It came into view at right angles from where I was looking, saved it not more than a few feet above the tree line.

Very scary feeling.
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:30 AM
  #118  
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Hi all,
I just bought a used BOT today. It already had the conversion done and is a proven flier. I've read all the posts and looked at all the photos and I'm drooling all over my keys. I can't wait to get this bird in the air. Have flown a vista and still have it, also have a well worn Hawk Sky. I like electrics....but this bird has me fasinated. great job from all of you on this, thanks so much. I got into RC in my early 20's and left it for many years. Now almost 40 years later I'm enjoying it again.
bluz
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:34 PM
  #119  
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You are older and can understand most of the guys in this thread are older and all of the mods are first class and work well. Stick with the latest info and you will love it for an arf at this price. Keep your cg at 3.75 and use the carbon fiber rods glued in the rear of the fuse(at least two rods)
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:09 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by bluzjamer View Post
Hi all,
I just bought a used BOT today. It already had the conversion done and is a proven flier. I've read all the posts and looked at all the photos and I'm drooling all over my keys. I can't wait to get this bird in the air. Have flown a vista and still have it, also have a well worn Hawk Sky. I like electrics....but this bird has me fasinated. great job from all of you on this, thanks so much. I got into RC in my early 20's and left it for many years. Now almost 40 years later I'm enjoying it again.
bluz
The Vista is a good flying 2M glider IF you get rid of the stock motor and NiCads. Put a nice light outrunner in there and a LiPo battery and it is fantastic. Watch the wing on it though. The spars do NOT touch at the poly joints, but have about a 1/4" gap and is held together by the plywood doublers. I found this out after taking my covering off to fix one. They do fly nice though.

As for the BOT, you have a fantastic glider there too. They are some of the best cheap gliders out there. BY cheap, I mean compared to a $1,000.00 carbon fiber contest machine. What's really nice is that you can keep up with them most of the time. Really, you have the best of both worlds. A glider that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and one that will fly fantastic.

Ed
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:28 AM
  #121  
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Guys I love this thread. Been getting back up to snuff. Didn't fly at all last year due to health. Relearning all the tx stuff and charging all my lipos. Have a lipo in the Vista but still have the brush motor. H ad a hard time getting it to fly right until I found that the wing and tail were not lineing up. Popcicle stick under the wing trailing edge fixed that. Want to get my old stuff up a few times before I toss the BOT. Retired and still hard to get away, always something else that needs to get done. Have been balance charging all my packs and that takes longer. Have a new aurora 9 and airtronics Sd10g still in the box. Will pick one to put in the BOT it deserves something cool.
Have been using a DX6i and a Hobby King 7 channel computer radio for most of my flying. Just set up a Mini Telemeister and that, the Hawk Sky, and the Vista are ready to fly. Working on a V-tail I bought used has an AXI motor, 20 amp ESC.
Have to look the motor up to see what size battery it needs. I think the guy said he had a 2s in it. I'm thinking 800 to 1000 2s. Will start out with the Hawk as it is a flying Timex. Can't be killed. Clear duct tape works wonders. This is one of the best forums in the world, love it here.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:05 PM
  #122  
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One of the previous posters credited this thread with being his impetus to register on these forums. Well you've done it again!

I've got a few planes left to fly this summer (read: I've spent enough money for one year) so I will have to hold off just a bit but I know my LHS has an ARF in stock just waiting for me to fill her with electrons.

I've been searching for something like a Radian that isn't a Radian cause there are enough of those around, and this project will keep me going though the long and cold canadian winter. Bring on the snow!

I have a 35mm (diameter) lying around from a crashed HK foamy, will that fit? I'm sure it will be powerful enough but it hasn't got any markings on it apart from "920kv" on the shrink wrap on the wires.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:19 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by bluzjamer View Post
Guys I love this thread. Been getting back up to snuff. Didn't fly at all last year due to health. Relearning all the tx stuff and charging all my lipos. .....This is one of the best forums in the world, love it here.
bluzjamer, this thread altered my life, got me back into R/C and I love the electrified BOT. SunDevilPilot really set the standard with his conversion and I patterened mine 90% after his. Some great honest folks here.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:49 AM
  #124  
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I'm glad this tread is still active and helping guys get their BOTs together. Mine is still flying and continues to catch some great thermals....

Thanks for the compliments!

SunDevilPilot
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:56 AM
  #125  
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Yeah!
Great thread!!!

Thanks SDP!
Regards
Jimmy
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