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Quadricopters?

Old 01-04-2015, 05:16 PM
  #1  
Angler-Hi
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Default Quadricopters?

Hey folks, it's been quite a while since I've been on here. But I'm back and have a few questions, lol.

QUADRICOPTERS? I just bought a Blade Nano QX and have been having a blast flying it in my living room. But I still don't know much about them. They seem to fly a lot like a heli, but yet you have to be in airplane mode on your Tx. Anyone out there fly these things? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have very little experience with helis, so I'm hoping this helps break me in a bit.

The Blade Nano has stability mode and agility mode. Obviously, agility mode is very touchy and seems to increase the throws by 50% or more. AWESOME. Of course I'm not there yet, lol. Too windy to take outside right now with 25-30mph winds, and my livingroom is only so big, lol. Again, any advice on these things, especially the Blade Nano QX would be great.

Happy holidays to everyone and thank you all. It's great to be back and have the bug again!
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:59 PM
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'Has anyone got these things?' Surely you jest! I'm not a big multi-rotor guy but I got one of these just to try it out. The only tips I really picked up are maintenence things. If it's flying a bit funny, all it takes is a hair wrapped around a shaft, a nick in a prop blade, or even a prop pressed too far down the motor shaft to mess it up. I've also read the motors, being the brushed type, can wear out rather quickly. I haven't had trouble with mine yet. Guess I haven't flown mine enough yet? Fun little machine to tool around in the house, but I'll stick to my planks for outdoors.
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:14 PM
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The reason that RC quadcopters AND fixed pitch RC helicopters are setup as "airplanes" in your transmitter is because, like a plane, there are only 4 controls you need to worry about: throttle, aileron, rudder and elevator. Collective pitch helicopters are much different and they need to have special settings for the swash plate, pitch curve, throttle curve, gyro settings, etc.

As far as flying goes, unless you want to hover, go forward reverse and side to side slowly, the more spirited flying of these models requires a coordinated and deft control of both right and left sticks. to BANK and TURN a quad at speed, you need to use both aileron and rudder simultaneously in order for the quad to fly "airplane" like. Once you get it down, it is a real thrill. I myself have a Blade 180QX and 350QX and while both are SAFE equipped, you can really wring these things out in the "agility" mode.
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Old 01-04-2015, 06:21 PM
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I own one.......it's a great little quad.

If your's came RTF, the TX is ok, but you'll find a more enjoyable and flexible experience with a nicer Spektrum TX.....I use the DX6i.

Although I am an experienced CP heli pilot, I found that flying the quads are similar but much more forgiving and a great trainer towards the leap into fixed and collect pitch heli's.

A few things about the Nano....

The blade guards are a little flimsy, a few hard bangs and the leg sections may crack.......I've reinforced mine with a small wrap of electrical tape.

Orientation can be a little tricky even with the different blade colors, I've painted the forward frame a bright color to help with that.

Battery run times will vary over time. I've found that Blade and Venom batteries work the best and there's very few options on sizes (150mAh) due to the battery mounting bracket size.

Unless you have "no fear" and don't mind crashing alot (at first), flying in the Stability and the Agility low modes will be most enjoyable. The Agility high mode shuts off all stability aspects and is much like flying a CP heli.....if you've never flown CP, not advised. That is why a better TX comes into play, rates can be adjusted to tame the Quad down. The little stock TX dose not provide that flexibility.

The props should be checked occasionally to make sure thay are pressed down properly.......another little trick if the quad seems to be a little unstable during yaw and rotation, gently place each side of the prop between your thumb/index finger and give a little twist to each side in the same direction of the blade angle.......this will insure that the blade pitch maintains a good angle.......flat is not a good thing. Do this on all 4 props occasionally.

Outdoor flight is fun......but range is an issue (I found that out the hard way).......200' to 300' max vert. & horiz.........be extremely carefull in breezy conditions. The little quad has a serious tendency to lift very fast and will be out of range and LOS quickly.

Other than that, the Nano is the bomb, it's what got me started into larger quads (after I played with several less qualified mini's like the WL Toys, Hubsan, HeliMax, Walkera types)......

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Old 01-21-2015, 04:13 PM
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Thanks guys. I've been flying the nano QX for about two weeks now and am comfortable with her in stability mode. Been messing around with her in agility mode and it's a lot of fun. Of course, for me I need a lot of room, lol. I also picked up 5 extra batteries for it and fly it with my DX7.

I also bought the Proto X by Estes (flying it with the Hubsan remote). So cool to fly when the wind is too much outside. I am now the proud owner of the Traxxas LaTraxx Alias. Another cool quad!! I can't stop buying them, lol. I ABSOLUTELY love the Alias. So many possibilities! Thanks again for the responses folks. Hopefully it won't be too long before I'm ready to fly my new Blade 200 SR X.
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Old 01-21-2015, 04:20 PM
  #6  
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Quadrotors use a mixing/gyro board in the aircraft. If the mixing was done in the TX it would require a complex mix of Ail to Elev to rudder to throttle. The DX6 series TX couldn't do it and manually programming it into a DX8 or higher capability radio would drive you nuts.

Throttle affects ail + elev + rudder (make 4 motors spin at once)
Ail affects elev + rudder + throttle (increase 2 and decrease 2 to roll)
Elev affects ail + rudder + throttle (increase 2 and decrease 2 to pitch)
rudder affects ail + elev + throttle (increase 2 and decrease 2 to yaw)

It could take 12 user programmable mixes to make it work without the mixer board.
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Old 01-21-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Quadrotors use a mixing/gyro board in the aircraft. If the mixing was done in the TX it would require a complex mix of Ail to Elev to rudder to throttle. The DX6 series TX couldn't do it and manually programming it into a DX8 or higher capability radio would drive you nuts.

Throttle affects ail + elev + rudder (make 4 motors spin at once)
Ail affects elev + rudder + throttle (increase 2 and decrease 2 to roll)
Elev affects ail + rudder + throttle (increase 2 and decrease 2 to pitch)
rudder affects ail + elev + throttle (increase 2 and decrease 2 to yaw)

It could take 12 user programmable mixes to make it work without the mixer board.
I'm not at all sure how the last post is relevant to anything related to the OP's thread.......
And......this statement is completely a pipe dream....:

"If the mixing was done in the TX it would require a complex mix of Ail to Elev to rudder to throttle. The DX6 series TX couldn't do it and manually programming it into a DX8 or higher capability radio would drive you nuts."

"Drive you nuts".........

Please, Mr Huber, show us a legitimate case where a "hobby level" quad multi rotor has been completely programmed through the use of only the TX without the interface of firmware and some type of "on-board" mixing board and gyro.......:

"It could take 12 user programmable mixes to make it work without the mixer board".......assuming it can be done at all.......

Seems the only "nuts" being driven by the previous assumptions, are the ones flowing from the "pipe" in this dream.......
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:48 PM
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Pizzano... your post has 100% no purpose except to troll.

My post was an explanation of why the mixing is done in a special mixer/gyro, not a TX.

First lack of user mixes to get the job done.
Second doing all of the mixes.

If you had a radio with enough mixes it could be done but you'd be missing the gyro stabilizers and then flying it would be a nightmare for anyone but an expert at flying 3D helis even with the mixes balanced properly.
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Pizzano... your post has 100% no purpose except to troll.

My post was an explanation of why the mixing is done in a special mixer/gyro, not a TX.

First lack of user mixes to get the job done.
Second doing all of the mixes.

If you had a radio with enough mixes it could be done but you'd be missing the gyro stabilizers and then flying it would be a nightmare for anyone but an expert at flying 3D helis even with the mixes balanced properly.
"My post was an explanation of why the mixing is done in a special mixer/gyro, not a TX."

Sorry mr. Huber, still can't see how that is related (programming/mixing quads) to anything the OP asked about.......

Please provide us with a legitimate working example where, with only the TX with enough mixes, this has been done........and any pertinent personal experience you have flying, constructing and programming quad multi-rotor craft......thanks!
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Old 01-21-2015, 10:45 PM
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My mate has one and loves it. It does fly sweet. Usually he flies it at indoor meetings with other like minded guys.
Price varies massively depending on where you buy them. Be aware.
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Old 01-21-2015, 11:19 PM
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Whats a QUADRICOPTER ?

I have a Quadcopter with camera ... does flips / aerobatics etc.

Is it a good start to get into Heli's ? IMHO - no.

Does it teach enough for a heli ? Maybe for some - but as a Heli flyer - my answer is still no.

Do I enjoy flying the Quad ? Occasionally .... but it soon wore off ... First days I had it ... I was out in the garden every opportunity with it. After a while - it sat there looking at me ...

Sorry but my Heli's and Fixed wing give me more adrenaline rush than that quad.

Nigel
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:13 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Whats a QUADRICOPTER ?

I have a Quadcopter with camera ... does flips / aerobatics etc.

Is it a good start to get into Heli's ? IMHO - no.

Does it teach enough for a heli ? Maybe for some - but as a Heli flyer - my answer is still no.

Do I enjoy flying the Quad ? Occasionally .... but it soon wore off ... First days I had it ... I was out in the garden every opportunity with it. After a while - it sat there looking at me ...

Sorry but my Heli's and Fixed wing give me more adrenaline rush than that quad.

Nigel
I bet that Stingray 500 would change your mind...but yes, I too feel quads to be quite boring. To me they are tools really, for aerial photography and filming, and unless I were to venture into the Stingray 500, I see no level of excitement like a heli, especially CP.

The issue with quads is the fact that they are fixed pitch, and cutting the power to two motors allows turning or pitching in a direction, but also causes a loss in power. For that reason, one is not able to go into more experimental flight forms.
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Old 01-22-2015, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
I bet that Stingray 500 would change your mind...but yes, I too feel quads to be quite boring. To me they are tools really, for aerial photography and filming, and unless I were to venture into the Stingray 500, I see no level of excitement like a heli, especially CP.

The issue with quads is the fact that they are fixed pitch, and cutting the power to two motors allows turning or pitching in a direction, but also causes a loss in power. For that reason, one is not able to go into more experimental flight forms.
I bought mine mainly to video my estate ... there are too many trees for fixed wing and to have something to fly around the trees.

I quickly did it's first job ... and then just became boring.

I was interested in possibly racing - some others were talking about 'racing obstacle courses' .. which my trees would have been ideal ... but it never 'took off' (forgive the un !!).

I did look at modifications to existing larger quad with a pal of mine who's heavily into FPV / Autonomous flight etc. We considered modifying to vectored units on the arms instead of fixed. This would increase the capability of the machine hugely. But the control aspects were serious. I previously started a thread that was part of that thinking .... a vertical lift machine that could also go into normal forward flight but as a fixed wing machine. Suggestions by people to vectorise the vertical lift motor parts ... etc.

It's amazing to see what quads and all other RC machines are now doing ... whatever their style. Who would have thought of $50 for a box and a fully versatile quad and camera ? Years ago - it was the stuff of science fiction.

Nigel
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
"My post was an explanation of why the mixing is done in a special mixer/gyro, not a TX."

Sorry mr. Huber, still can't see how that is related (programming/mixing quads) to anything the OP asked about.......

Please provide us with a legitimate working example where, with only the TX with enough mixes, this has been done........and any pertinent personal experience you have flying, constructing and programming quad multi-rotor craft......thanks!

Its all you're good for

Last edited by gramps2361; 01-23-2015 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Keep trolling

Its all you're good for
I think what the point was is that since the user doesn't have to use the TX mixes...then there is little reason in saying what mixes would be need. Really, I can't see such mixes being possible, and certainly more than 12 mixes would be necessary. For a throttle input and amount of input of aileron, elevator or rudder, a mix could very well differ. Really, a CP quad is the only way you could add mixing, for any throttle input, an increase in pitch is all that is required to move about.
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Old 01-23-2015, 03:30 AM
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Wow...didn't mean to start a war. Was just looking for some input on quads, as I'm still new to them. For me, flying them is "very fun" and I enjoy it. As for the relevance of a learning tool to get into helis, then I will just have to agree to disagree. My heli is a fixed pitch 4ch bird and reacts identical to that of a quad...regardless of my heli only having one main rotor and one tail rotor to that of four rotors. Maybe wouldn't be the best stepping stone to a 6ch collective pitch heli, but I see almost difference between a quad and fixed pitch heli.

As a side note, my quad experience (as little as it may be) HAS helped me with flying my fixed pitch heli. Hopefully we're all friends here and can agree to fly whatever makes us happy. I enjoy flying these quads...I find them a very nice way to break the routine of flying just my planes when at the field. Thanks for all your responses. I really do appreciate ALL OF YOU for your honest advice. Thanks friends.

Mike
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:13 AM
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No exactly sure why WW3 started there. Quads will behave more like a fixed pitch heli, although FP aren't exactly fixed pitch, just in collective they are. Truthfully, a tricopter would give the best feel of a heli, as a quad piros about its center, mean the front moves right as the rear moves left.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:51 PM
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Since we're going there , the first multirotor I saw was back in the last century. Designed by David Raines of Cincinatti OH. It flew with HELI gyros and transmitter mixing. There was no such thing as a multi-rotor board, they weren't in existence at the time.

Just like the first RC Helicopters were built by experimenters with not even a gyro available, the multirotors went through the same development phases. To think that multi-rotor boards just appeared is ridiculous.

Pizzano: David RAines is on Facebook, I'm sure he be glad to discuss the process with you.

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Old 01-23-2015, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Azarr View Post
Since we're going there , the first multirotor I saw was back in the last century. Designed by David Raines of Cincinatti OH. It flew with HELI gyros and transmitter mixing. There was no such thing as a multi-rotor board, they weren't in existence at the time.

Just like the first RC Helicopters were built by experimenters with not even a gyro available, the multirotors went through the same development phases. To think that multi-rotor boards just appeared is ridiculous.

Pizzano: David RAines is on Facebook, I'm sure he be glad to discuss the process with you.

Azarr
Thank You Azarr for the interesting response.........However, I'd rather not detract any further from the OP's original post and questions. That's what really started the inquiry to begin with........
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:21 PM
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lets not confuse the issue by bringing up facts.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by thepiper92 View Post
No exactly sure why WW3 started there. Quads will behave more like a fixed pitch heli, although FP aren't exactly fixed pitch, just in collective they are. Truthfully, a tricopter would give the best feel of a heli, as a quad piros about its center, mean the front moves right as the rear moves left.
Really? I didn't know that, thanks. I've seen the tricopters but never thought about the difference. Maybe I need to get one of those, lol. Thanks for the tip friend.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:48 AM
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You guys are fun to watch, lol (no pun intended). Hey, if I can learn something by watching a debate, then by all means folks...continue. Just remember we're all here because we share a common passion for RC.
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Old 02-01-2015, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Angler-Hi View Post
Really? I didn't know that, thanks. I've seen the tricopters but never thought about the difference. Maybe I need to get one of those, lol. Thanks for the tip friend.
What I stated is hard to explain, as depending on whether a heli is moving its pivot changes so to speak. At a standstill, a piro on a heli will rotate about the axis of the main rotor, but in forward flight, the tail will swing around somewhat. This is like a tricopter. With a quad, the only method of piroing is torque unbalance (although helis use this to a degree), so thus two rotors of the same rotation must overpower the other two, resulting in the front moving with the back. I find it much different feeling than a heli, and, while Ive never tried a tricopter, it would use thrust direction to control the tail. A quad would still most certainly wouldn't hurt you any, but to me it is different
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